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Why do people assume the old Greek albums have actual drums?
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lemegethon



Joined: 27 Jun 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:53 am    Post subject: Why do people assume the old Greek albums have actual drums? Reply with quote

Many people here seem to think that f.i. the Rotting Christ and Varathron classics have e-drums on them instead of drum machines. To me it just seems like drum computers, so why do people think that the drums there are actually manually played?
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Crasse



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because e-drums sound like programmed drums even if someone is playing it, except for the fails he can make. Horrible sound anyway.

You couldve posted example links by the way.
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H5N1



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't speak of these albums directly as I never owned or cared for that scene but back then there were some examples of bands with drum machine sound but with real drummers like early Graveland. The reason you know those aren't programmed is from Capricornus' "loose" playing. Maybe same thing here?
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Tireheb



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least Thy Mighty Contract has always sounded like real drums to my ears. And there is no indication on the albums that the drums are programmed.
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Tireheb



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

H5N1 wrote:
I can't speak of these albums directly as I never owned or cared for that scene but back then there were some examples of bands with drum machine sound but with real drummers like early Graveland. The reason you know those aren't programmed is from Capricornus' "loose" playing. Maybe same thing here?


All Capricornus-era albums have real drums, except maybe The Celtic Winter. and for sure Immortal Pride. Or care to example how do you program the drums on In the Glare of Burning Churches or Thousand Swords?
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Wolfram



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crasse wrote:
Because e-drums sound like programmed drums even if someone is playing it, except for the fails he can make. Horrible sound anyway.



Yes, BUT I wouldn't like these albums to have any other drumsound now. Doubtful if re-recording them would work (like Absurd f.e.)
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Tireheb



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is done is done.
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bearsbearsbears



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what you're saying is that Wolfen doesn't actually exist? Crying or Very sad
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Tireheb



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsbearsbears wrote:
So what you're saying is that Wolfen doesn't actually exist? Crying or Very sad


"Drummer" of Azaxul now Wink
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tagradh



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tireheb wrote:
Or care to example how do you program the drums on In the Glare of Burning Churches or Thousand Swords?



What do you mean?

The software/hardware to program sloppy, outa time drums has been pretty common since the 90s. There's no great reason to do it, not to the point that they sound shit, anyway, but still.
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TheUnnatural



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tagradh wrote:
Tireheb wrote:
Or care to example how do you program the drums on In the Glare of Burning Churches or Thousand Swords?



What do you mean?

The software/hardware to program sloppy, outa time drums has been pretty common since the 90s. There's no great reason to do it, not to the point that they sound shit, anyway, but still.


Judging by that one pic from "Isengard studio", the gear Darken had at his disposal in those days was an Amiga 500, a mixer and a tape deck. Programming sloppy drums so that they actually sound like a human messing up is also a huge chore.

Celtic Winter has programmed drums, the two Tireheb mentioned above have Capricornus playing. Most of the old Greek stuff recorded with Magus has programmed drums with maybe some real percussion thrown on top from time to time. Why is this even being debated, y'all niggas deaf or something?


Last edited by TheUnnatural on Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Karlskrone



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the old Kawir stuff sounds programmed to me. I could be wrong though.....
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dalecooper



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Won't comment on the old Greek albums, but as far as drum machines and e-drums go, there are a number of possibilities. This was definitely true back at the time (I used several drum machines myself back in the early to mid 90s for home recording); might still be true today though I am out of the loop on the changes in technology.

Anyway, if you were using e-drums you'd obviously get electronic drum sounds but with the looseness of a human playing them. You could also just play a drum machine like a kit, literally sitting there hitting the tiny pads in real time for the length of a song, and some bands did do this because some of those ancient drum machines were a bitch to program. I did it myself a couple times before I tracked down a manual to the used drum machine I'd bought.

Another possibility is "programming" that isn't programming really, but something more like looping. Many drum machines would have you play to a click track in real time, then save what you played. If the machine didn't have (or you didn't know how to use) a quantize feature, which syncs the beats up to the nearest 8th or 16th note or whatever, you'd have looped sloppiness. You could play large chunks of songs that way; or record a measure at a time and stitch them all together into a song. It would amount to a kind of programming, but where every single beat might be off rhythm, potentially. (With quantize turned on, it would sound machine-perfect regardless of how badly you played it.)

What most people think of as programming - where you see a visual layout of a measure and you select which beats you want to play certain drum hits on - that obviously wouldn't have any built-in sloppiness to it, unless you intentionally made it that way. But a lot of the older drum machines didn't work that way in my experience. Like I said, I used several different ones in roughly the time period these albums were made, and all but the last of them required playing what you wanted to hear on the pads, then massaging the result with quantize and programming the different recorded sections end to end to make a song.
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lemegethon



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

H5N1 wrote:
I can't speak of these albums directly as I never owned or cared for that scene but back then there were some examples of bands with drum machine sound but with real drummers like early Graveland. The reason you know those aren't programmed is from Capricornus' "loose" playing. Maybe same thing here?

Graveland eventually did drums by keyboard, btw.
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EK Nacht
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Why do people assume the old Greek albums have actual dr Reply with quote

lemegethon wrote:
Many people here seem to think that f.i. the Rotting Christ and Varathron classics have e-drums on them instead of drum machines. To me it just seems like drum computers, so why do people think that the drums there are actually manually played?


Because they listen while distracted by instagram and facebook and only care about the riff melodies anyway and checking off another classic album that they can now claim to "know."
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