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Bidding on eBay automatically?
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Dodens Grav



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1601

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demoniarch wrote:
Voidhanger wrote:
Demoniarch wrote:
What item is that important ? Rolling Eyes

If something is so damned important put your bid in at $666 day one and probably win everything as well.


That'll just drive up the price needlessly though. Why pay more if you don't have to?


The selling of items way higher than their real value is the whole bread and butter of bidding and what ebay is designed for. This is what bidding does.
This sniping just raises the final price as well higher than it needs to be, every bid does no matter how the bid is made.
Anything requiring a bid to win is fishing for a price higher than the value of the item is actually worth, otherwise everything would list as buy it now's.


Obviously you're not understanding this.

If you put in a bid for $100 a day before the auction ends, it's far more likely that people will keep bidding on that item during the final day, raising the price until they either top your bid or they refuse to go any higher. If you put in a bid for $100 at the last second, they don't have the chance to do this. Items on which high bids are placed well in advance of the end of the auction always sell more than those for which the high bidders place their bids in the remaining seconds of the auction.

This is what "sniping" is for. It increases your chances of winning the item for a cheaper price than you are likely to have if you placed the same bid a day earlier.
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Voidhanger



Joined: 11 Oct 2007
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Location: Kanada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to explain myself, but I see Dodens Grav did a perfectly fine job of that already. Cool
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Demoniarch



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the item is wanted, price should be of no concern.

As for all the in depth explanations, I thank you all for the efforts to explain, I do protest though that I am in, and was of full understanding of how one could save $10 or $20 with a little electronic help.

As far as I am concerned, if you want something that badly, price means nothing cause you will get it regardless. Everything is for sale after all on this earth. Wanting something so bad and being a cheap bastard trying to pinch some pennies in the process of aquisistion is just plain ridiculous, and does not guarantee success.
There can be no value placed on the desire to own something if you really want it that bad, and if you are not willing to go as far as you can to get it you never really cared if you had it to begin with.
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Goatchrist



Joined: 02 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many records that I want so badly like Sadistik Exekution magus or Sadistic Intent resurrection aaaand etc, but I can't pay 200$ for each of them, many of them end up so expensive because people start giving their highest prices from the first day, only because of them they end up that expensive I think. It makes more sense bidding seconds before it ends up.
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Dodens Grav



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The concept of paying more for something than you have to is pretty stupid and makes no sense whatsoever. If I can get the thing that I want most in the world just as easily for $100 or for $150, I'm going to take it for $100. Sure, maybe somebody would pay $500 for some rare CD, but why shouldn't he try to get it cheaper if he could? This is not being cheap; rather, the opposite is just being frivolous. I can't even comprehend your logic. Are you a millionaire? Do you light cigarettes with $100 bills? Why would you willingly pay more (even substantially more) for something when you can just as easily or only slightly more difficultly get it cheaper? It just...makes no sense at all.
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minge-eater



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3797
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bidding seconds before the end isnt a fool proof thing , as it seems sniping is the norm , so either way it will get its highest price
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Demoniarch



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodens Grav wrote:
The concept of paying more for something than you have to is pretty stupid and makes no sense whatsoever. If I can get the thing that I want most in the world just as easily for $100 or for $150, I'm going to take it for $100. Sure, maybe somebody would pay $500 for some rare CD, but why shouldn't he try to get it cheaper if he could? This is not being cheap; rather, the opposite is just being frivolous. I can't even comprehend your logic. Are you a millionaire? Do you light cigarettes with $100 bills? Why would you willingly pay more (even substantially more) for something when you can just as easily or only slightly more difficultly get it cheaper? It just...makes no sense at all.


The logic is simple. ...and I am not a millionaire.
There are many objects I desire as well, I weigh the want vs. the need and perhaps I will once in awhile guarantee a aquisistion of said item for myself, giving into the want of course as I never need any of these things. More often than not it always ends up that I view all this stuff worthless and not having been worth the effort or the cost to aquire to begin with. It is after all nothing but materials.
However I suffer the same greeds as any man and I give into temptation, and when that happens I will aquire anything I want regardless of cost (of course that still has other factoring limits and checkstops in my own methods to bypass before I get too ridiculous with spending) ...food and roof comes before everything etc etc, never missed a bill in my life, and I am willing to work, everyday if I must, and I have. I have went years without using sick days even though I am fully paid them.

It is I who do not understand the competition of men to aquire simple items, or the restrictions placed on these items to begin with to even allow the conditions of ebay to exist in the first place. I have no pride in owning an item another cannot aquire, I will use whatever finances I have to aquire something though if I want it, thing is though I never want anything bad enough to care or to actually spend too ridiculous an amount to aquire the item.
I've over-paid a time or two as I have failed to maintain my own standard disinterest levels for rare items, of course winning the item is a hollow victory and it happens less and less now.
If I win I win, if not whatever.

Maybe I don't care enough ?
Then again I've always managed to get what I want one way or another regardless of costs.
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Dodens Grav



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a sure thing, of course not, but it definitely absolutely results in lower prices very often. This really shouldn't even be questioned, it's a pretty obvious occurrence. This is one of the reasons why sometimes you see the same album sell anywhere between $10 and $200, because there were no high bids to jack up the price until the end of the auction (obviously other factors come into play like how many people are bidding, if they're at the computer at the end, how high they're willing to bid, etc).
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dalecooper



Joined: 26 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demoniarch wrote:
If the item is wanted, price should be of no concern...

As far as I am concerned, if you want something that badly, price means nothing cause you will get it regardless. Everything is for sale after all on this earth. Wanting something so bad and being a cheap bastard trying to pinch some pennies in the process of aquisistion is just plain ridiculous, and does not guarantee success.
There can be no value placed on the desire to own something if you really want it that bad, and if you are not willing to go as far as you can to get it you never really cared if you had it to begin with.


If I may extend this ridiculous argument to its fullest extent, I should probably offer every seller my entire life savings for every item I choose to buy; and perhaps I should also call up everyone listed in the phone book, asking if they're interested in this item, and making sure I am willing to offer more than them. Am I right?

Your logic is non-logic. Money is meaningful to all of us who aren't billionaires. We all try to save money on most of our purchases if at all possible, so that we have more money for other things. I might be WILLING to pay $100 for a CD (usually I'm not) - but if I don't have to, and the only difference between paying $60 or paying $100 is my laziness, then why shouldn't I try to save the money? That's two more meals out at a decent restaurant, four more CDs, two or three more new vinyls, etc. etc. I'm happy to save that $40. Any other attitude suggests that maybe you have more money than all the rest of us.
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Demoniarch



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalecooper wrote:
[ Any other attitude suggests that maybe you have more money than all the rest of us.


Not neccessarily... all it suggests is that I view things from a different point of view perhaps.

Money is meaningless. Society and the way we have chosen to continue supporting the current system makes these pieces of paper and metal coins the value they mysteriously have. ...people only need a few things to really survive, and both can be obtained with zero dollars. The homeless manage just fine in this aspect. A man in the forest off the grid manages better. The things people try to save money for to obtain is valueless crap, trying to collect more and more of it is pointless. (I am guilty as well, however I see this failure in myself)

I always expected people into metal to have wider ideals when it comes to philosophy and current economics, to at least understand greater concepts, not neccessarily support or follow them, but at least to grasp them and acknowledge the pursuit of such concepts as worthy.
Is not alot of black metal about very different ideals than the lives we all live in a very economic and valueless society ? ...it sure the hell is not about bidding and winning albums, mainly these bleak bastards want to destruct all this pathetic bullshit, and that includes collecting.
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Demoniarch



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalecooper wrote:

If I may extend this ridiculous argument to its fullest extent, I should probably offer every seller my entire life savings for every item I choose to buy; and perhaps I should also call up everyone listed in the phone book, asking if they're interested in this item, and making sure I am willing to offer more than them. Am I right?


Depends of course on how desperate you are to aquire said item now isn't it ?


Of course nothing is worth that though is it ? ...and now we perhaps get somewhere...
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Voidhanger



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I can certainly understand the notion of wanting something at all costs, spending much more than you need to means that next time you want something at all costs, the amount you have to give may be significantly lowered - increasing the risk that you won't get it. At the end of the day, it just screws you out of stuff you might really want later.
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headnhalf



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest I'm not one for bidding hundreds of pounds for one album as the £100 I spent on one album could have bought a fuck-ton of other albums that are as good if not better that the singular album that might be ok and look cool in my collection but at the end of the day was it really worth the price?
I like buying an album blind, going on instinct, recomendations etc it's part of the thrill putting on an album and having no idea of what the hell is going to come out of the speakers, fuck it if it's rubbish I've only spent a few quid.
It's the same reason why I hardly ever download anything as it seems far to easy, immediate and defeats the whole thrill of the chase element, fuck I'd love to know what all the fuss is about Sororicide and Flames of Hell but to be honest I'd prefer to wait for the re-issue Very Happy
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dalecooper



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demoniarch wrote:

Of course nothing is worth that though is it ? ...and now we perhaps get somewhere...


Taking things to extremes has no bearing on most people's actual experience as consumers. This isn't philosophy class. If it's anything, it's economics.
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Sadovahr



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dalecooper wrote:
Sadovahr wrote:
Just a word of warning! If ebay finds out that you are using such a service they will suspend permanently your account.


That's not my understanding. In fact I found this when I googled it:

"Q. Is sniping illegal, against eBay policy, fraud, or dishonest?

A. No. Sniping is 100% allowed according to eBay policy. eBay's help center found here, lists sniping as one of the few complaints they specifically will not investigate. Section 7 of eBay's privacy policy found here, states that you can share your password with a third party if you choose to."

This is the actual eBay policy on sniping, copied from their page here:

"What we won’t investigate

Someone outbid me at the last minute. Placing a high bid in the closing seconds of an auction-style listing is called “sniping” within the eBay community. Sniping is part of the eBay experience, and all bids placed before a listing ends are valid, even if they're placed one second before the listing ends. Learn how to avoid being outbid."

And this is the part of their policy about password-sharing:

"Your password is the key to your account. Use unique numbers, letters and special characters, and do not disclose your eBay password to anyone. If you do share your password or your personal information with others, remember that you are responsible for all actions taken in the name of your account."


oh, sorry then Embarassed my mistake! I read in a forum the exact opposite but never bothered to read ebay help center. As for the high prices for rare stuff dispute and how stupid is to pay lots of cash for a single record I have to add that it's a matter of priorities. People consuming and paying! In the end we all do the same thing, the only difference is the product we're buying and how important is for us. Example outside our music: the price for a Picasso painting. Millions of $ and this is normal, Picasso is a known classic painter etc etc, for me is pure trash but still maaaany people thinks the opposite! H.R. Giger sells in his website papers with simple drawings for high price, but in the "stockmarket" of art this is normal and even cult! So why the big deal? Another daily life example: if you go out and eat you'll pay ~300% up than the actual cost of the food and the service. Why this isn't a big deal? Every commercial product we consume is a potential stupid purchase because everything is too much overpriced but we are keep on consuming. Nothing more than opinions opinions opinions and priorities, there's no rights or wrongs here unless someone fells in the category "I'm too lazy to do a search and I'm paying $500 for a bootleg Moonblood demo which I can get for $3.00". Yes, THIS is stupid!! I'm only trying to say that we already spending a shitload of money for OVERPRICED everyday things, things that we enjoy, so why vinyls should be excluded? Why? For a code of "ethics"? Can't realy understand it...
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