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Vinyls pressed... wrong!
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maranatha



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Vinyls pressed... wrong! Reply with quote

I recently purchased a repress of Bathory's "Blood Fire Death" on vinyl only to find that the RPM are slightly slowed down in comparison with the cd version that I own for many years now. Certain it is that this is not a mistake of my Project turntable as I do also own a speed box which automatically tunes the rounds per minute.

Are there any of you that have noticed the same problem as I? Could I get in touch with Black Mark and ask for a replacement? My copy was pressed in 03 on black wax.


Oh, post also any experiences you might have had with similar problems as mine. I'm sure there are many.
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Demoniarch



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 6026

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets do some math here.
The album was pressed in 2003 correct ?
It is now literally pretty much 2009.

That is 6 years ago from today when the album was pressed pretty much. Getting a replacement, I would think not. Laughing


However I do enourage a letter to Black Mark to ask for one, and then please come back here and post the response. Cool
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dronevil



Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 1760
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well if your copy is on wrong speed then it means all the vinyls from the same pressing would have the same problem, probably try the pic disc version released last year?
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peterott



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 4716
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to talk about Marduk's - Those Of The Unlight LP-desaster pressing...

However, I got recently the Amon Amarth - Twilight Of The Thunder God 2-LP and this sounds as if it is pressed with wrong speed too. On 33rpm at least the first LP is wrong on both sides. I can pitch up to 10%, but I haven't found a proper speed where it sounded good. However, having the pitch on 10% it is already too fast. 2nd LP sounds better but still not correct either, but the first LP is definitely too slow.
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Nocturnal Deathstrike



Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 2291

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there we finally have a big plus of digital recording systems compared to analogue ones ! It happened to me a lot with my old TASCAM 8 tracker that I when I mixed down the tracks that I accidently changed the pitch shifter settings and the speed differed from the original recorded one !
I think that can happen in one way or another while mastering from analogue sources in studio as well ! Wasn´t there some speed issue with the first press of the WFG Live CD on NWN as well ?
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CR99



Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 9632
Location: M�lheim an der Ruhr/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nocturnal Deathstrike wrote:
Wasn´t there some speed issue with the first press of the WFG Live CD on NWN as well ?


Yeah the first press of the CD
Was the vinyl affected as well? I dont know
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maranatha



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I mean vinyl surpasses the clynical and cold cd sound, but on the other hand I want to listen to the recordings as the band and the producer wanted to sound. What we have here is a clear distortion of the original product, and it tends to become the norm that lps are pressed with defects all the time- be it annoying scratches that could continue to emerge for 5 to 10 minutes or else.

On the other hand I understand that converting the original digital to an analogue sign could be the thing responsible.
I have a Nergal/Funeral Urn ep that was creating a nauseating sinusoidal curve but that must be because of bad storing(2nd hand).
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Nocturnal Deathstrike



Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 2291

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maranatha wrote:

On the other hand I understand that converting the original digital to an analogue sign could be the thing responsible.
I have a Nergal/Funeral Urn ep that was creating a nauseating sinusoidal curve but that must be because of bad storing(2nd hand).


That was not how I meant it ! The format of the end product doesn´t matter in this case.
I mean old albums where recorded analogue on tapes or reels, and when you want to master them to bring it in the end form to press, can be CD or the actual vinyl pressing plates you have to play those tapes from beginning to the end. And when you use a CD-R as master the speed is set, while on a tape master there is always the possibility to fuck the right playing speed while mastering. I don´t think this happens the guy who cuts the press plates, but most likely one step before in the studio.
My rough guess is that BATHORY album in question was re-mastered from original tapes, means in the studio they used the original tapes and mastered them on CD. I know there´s always some big knob on analogue recorders where you can adjust the speed of the tape. You can just too easily change those settings by mistake. I guess this is what happened in this case. So if there was a CD pressing done with the same master, it would have the same speed issue !


Just to make a bit more clear what I´m talking about....

The round knob down in the middle adjusts the playing speed.

That one is a portable analogue recorder but I know there´s something similar on reel recorderss used in most studios back in the day.

Normally this knob should be set in the middle, when the album is now recorded with the knob being slightly above the middle the whole tape runs too fast. It´s not a problem if you have the same setting when playing the tape when mixing. But now imagine years after the recording someone puts the original tapes in the player (probably someone who never heard the right speed) he just naturally has the knob in the middle, resulting that the tape plays slower while mixing/mastering.
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Antimosh003



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 623
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gavin from Bolt Thrower lives down the road from me and drinks in my local, he once told me he has a picture disc of War Master with the Greece soundtrack on the B-side!
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Bestial Aggressor



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 622

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nearly all the BACK ON BLACK releases I own have the beginnings and ends of songs missing, or they cut in and out very abruptly. Their pressing of Enslaved's Isa is a total cluster fuck. I don't know how they get away with this dishonest, half arsed approach to pressing LPs.
Also Inquisition's "Into the Infernal regions.." DLP sounds like shit, sounds like mp3s. May get rid of it.
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Azmoth



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 867

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

about Bathory "BFD", maybe the speeded up version is an answer from the label for the LP doesn't skip, as I've been told several times that it was too long for a single LP and then you had to add a coin on the spinhead to be heavier and not skipping.
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NWN PROD



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 16970
Location: SF Bay Area

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vinyl version of WFG live 83 was fine. It was the first press that was pressed with the original slow master. Buried By Time and Dust was in charge of speaking to the band and they didn't say anything so we went with the slow master.
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nexxxion



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 426

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's fun to read that many big labels fuck up, Metal Blade, Black Mark, Back on Black etc. I any case, the labels are to blame, since they can't be bothered with test presses or checking the final product. But then again, you bought it anyway...
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Nocturnal Deathstrike



Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 2291

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nexxxion wrote:
That's fun to read that many big labels fuck up, Metal Blade, Black Mark, Back on Black etc. I any case, the labels are to blame, since they can't be bothered with test presses or checking the final product. But then again, you bought it anyway...


That doesn´t surprise me the slightest bit ! The more people are working on something the more fuck ups do happen !
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nexxxion



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 426

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but then again they should have at least a simple checklist to agree the simplest of things like artwork, budget or final product. That's so basic it's incredible it still gets fucked up. But then again they're dealing with Metal records. They'd be soon out of business in any other field...
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