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Aleister Crowley
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Heliogabalus



Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 1077
Location: 22 Acacia Ave.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:48 am    Post subject: Aleister Crowley Reply with quote

Thought provoking existentialist genius
or arrogant prick?
To me, it is a comination of both, but then again I only own a few of his works listed below
Therion and many other bands seem to think the first.
I am only familiar with (The Portable Darkness, and Oujia board ) books.
My own opinion is a combination of both, as he seems to flip flop dramatically on many thoughts which is the sign of a true thinker
I did buy the black magic recordings and they are a nice novelty
item and sound hillarious.
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Caina



Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 970

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:59 am    Post subject: Re: Aleister Crowley Reply with quote

Heliogabalus wrote:
Thought provoking existentialist genius
or arrogant prick?
To me, it is a comination of both, but then again I only own a few of his works listed below
Therion and many other bands seem to think the first.
I am only familiar with (The Portable Darkness, and Oujia board ) books.
My own opinion is a combination of both, as he seems to flip flop dramatically on many thoughts which is the sign of a true thinker
I did buy the black magic recordings and they are a nice novelty
item and sound hillarious.


I basically agree with you - he's both a genius and a fool; the most influential occultist of the 20th century and a collosally flawed human being. I have a great many of his books, and the recordings as well (which are indeed pretty funny because of his pronounced lisp). It often gets overlooked, but Martin Booth's 'A Magick Life' is a pretty good, balanced biography, far better than John Symonds acidic diatribe.
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Ichor



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to turn NWN into an esoteric/occult forum, but considering that most of you are interested in the "Dark" side so to speak, I guess you would be interested to know that Austin Osman Spare is without any doubt the greatest occultist of the last 20th century. Not only an artistist and visionaire but also the one who introduced the world to the Chaos current, which had such a profound impact especially in the late 80s til mid 90s.
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Heliogabalus



Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 1077
Location: 22 Acacia Ave.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:14 am    Post subject: aliester crowley Reply with quote

Ichor wrote:
I don't want to turn NWN into an esoteric/occult forum, but considering that most of you are interested in the "Dark" side so to speak, I guess you would be interested to know that Austin Osman Spare is without any doubt the greatest occultist of the last 20th century. Not only an artistist and visionaire but also the one who introduced the world to the Chaos current, which had such a profound impact especially in the late 80s til mid 90s.


I agree. I made a boo-boo when I started this thread.
This should be all about the music.
Thread should be deleted.
Sorry Gang.
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holgerdanske



Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to think of him as a self-absorbed over-previleged twit that hid in America during the First World War writing clever pieces for pro-German rags rather than face and endure the madness of that war alongside his countrymen. Sure, he did as he wilt. Big fucking deal. Rolling Eyes
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Hellfire Commando



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 2199
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ichor wrote:
I don't want to turn NWN into an esoteric/occult forum, but considering that most of you are interested in the "Dark" side so to speak, I guess you would be interested to know that Austin Osman Spare is without any doubt the greatest occultist of the last 20th century. Not only an artistist and visionaire but also the one who introduced the world to the Chaos current, which had such a profound impact especially in the late 80s til mid 90s.


Hmm, which writings would you recommend by him? I'd like to read some of his work.
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Kapalika



Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm, basically all of Spare´s work is interesting.
Have a first look here:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/chaos/index.htm
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Heliogabalus



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Aleister Crowley Reply with quote

holgerdanske wrote:
I tend to think of him as a self-absorbed over-previleged twit that hid in America during the First World War writing clever pieces for pro-German rags rather than face and endure the madness of that war alongside his countrymen. Sure, he did as he wilt. Big fucking deal. Rolling Eyes


I agree. While his books are mostly "fun" to read
If everyone on the planet "Did what they Wilst"
his scrawny ass would have been first to wind up dismembered and thrown in a dumpster.
I think a lot bands that use his references, just open up his books,
point to a word, and use it in a song.
I do enjoy his stuff, as novelty though.
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Mz412



Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 2697

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greatest Problem with the "understanding" are the Information
about the Background, what he is saying. Mostly (in german
a very big problem i think) interprets the stuff for their own,
totaly failing with this.

Crowleys Mainwork is the Theosophical Stuff, so its much more
better to work with the Theosophical stuff before. And if there
comes to Problems with this stuff, so no more need to read any
Crowley stuff Very Happy

(Crowley make the understanding mostly easier than the real
Theosophical stuff, but otherwise its nothing for weekend Wizards,
so who cares about all?)
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Ichor



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't recommend reading Spare if you are unfamiliar with Blake.
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Caina



Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ichor wrote:
I don't want to turn NWN into an esoteric/occult forum, but considering that most of you are interested in the "Dark" side so to speak, I guess you would be interested to know that Austin Osman Spare is without any doubt the greatest occultist of the last 20th century. Not only an artistist and visionaire but also the one who introduced the world to the Chaos current, which had such a profound impact especially in the late 80s til mid 90s.


Spare was undoubtedly the better artist (by a huge stretch), but in all fairness Crowley had been talking about the 'current' for a good while before Spare. Also, Crowley's 'cowardice' and 'treason' is all highly debatable, and nowhere near as clear cut as some (on both sides) would put it...
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nexxxion



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 426

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general, both had much to offer in the field of providing knowledge. Still ONA scriptures are generally on a much higher level. But I truly think one better makes up his own mind. I never understand the need for picking names and forming exclusive mens clubs. I also don't understand why he's portrayed as a Satanist by metal people while he's a Catholic.

The worst is Hollywood-"Satanist" Crowley. Every second idiot has the "Satanic" Bible in his basement, while they don't know shit about nothing...
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Caina



Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nexxxion wrote:
I also don't understand why he's portrayed as a Satanist by metal people while he's a Catholic.


He wasn't a Satanist, but he wasn't a Catholic. His parents were members of the ultra-Protestant Plymouth Brethren sect, and he had many conflicting Christian and anti-Christian tendencies, but he was never a Catholic.

nexxxion wrote:
The worst is Hollywood-"Satanist" Crowley.


Agree with you 100% there dude.

Also, I agree that forming 'boys clubs' of favourite occultists etc is fucking stupid - everyone should make independent decisions.
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maranatha



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ONA on the other hand has nothing to do with qabalah and Crowley but with the Way of Wyrd which is based on different structures and systems, striving towards the acausal realisation which is waaaay different that the writings of Thelema.
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nexxxion



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean the Tree of Wyrd, no? Way of Wyrd is that 80ies fantasy book that has high influences from Odinism.

ONAs Tree of Wyrd is something else (decades older), and I think it's meant to be highly metaphorical.
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