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Burning issue : vinyl sound in 2008
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Sadovahr



Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 1084
Location: Neverland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

only 45" rpm is real Twisted Evil
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rauta



Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 1477
Location: Finlandia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is obviously true that an analogue medium can deliver a fuller sound than CD. However, few seem to realize that you don't necesserily have to use analogue recording to achieve a nice and dynamic sound. If you're recording with digital equipment you just need to record a "fatter" wave instead of the normal 44100 sample rate that CDs use. When you record on, say, 88200 sample rate you get the sound required for a good quality analogue output but as the wave form is much larger than that of a normal audio cd you basically need twice the amount of CDR's than you'd need with normal audio wave. And of course such masters CDRs cannot be listened to on a CD player for the same reason.

I'm not very good with the technical terms but you get the point, ja?
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thrashbeast



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 428

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jesus fucking christ you guys, this talk is extremely gay for a metal board. Anyone who spends time studying numbers and tones and formats and shit is a fucking nerd.

And the guy that said he got mental fatigue from listening to CDs, give me a fucking break...
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Endless Morbidity



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2108
Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've thought about this to. That's it's kind of gay that people champion vinyl releases, yet it's take from digital sources today. In that respect, it's like putting a CD on vinyl. Which could mean an LP today is inferior CD quality, since you have the hisses and the pops and the cracks.

But I don't know, I'm not too educated on the subject. I've listened to recent releases on both CD and LP and the vinyl sounds much better.

I don't think most plants deal with analog though and from what I was told, recording on tape or digitally means nothing. It's how you actually play.
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Professor Black



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2117
Location: Evil Nation USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This subject is as tired as limited editions, Metallica, and Southern Lord.
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doomedplanet



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 462
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give me a fucking break, it is obvious you cannot even face the fact that others have views that differs from yours. Yeah I get physically tired of listening to new digital recorded cd. sorry, the sound of vinyl slays crappy cds and if you think someone can't have an opinion other than yours, why are you even bothering to post to a metal forum?

thrashbeast wrote:

And the guy that said he got mental fatigue from listening to CDs, give me a fucking break...
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Reed



Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Posts: 1716
Location: Denver, Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thrashbeast wrote:
Jesus fucking christ you guys, this talk is extremely gay for a metal board. Anyone who spends time studying numbers and tones and formats and shit is a fucking nerd.

And the guy that said he got mental fatigue from listening to CDs, give me a fucking break...


I suppose all the posts on here should be about how long our hair is, how drunk we get all the time, and how brutal mosh pits are?

It's a forum full of nerds dude.
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Iscariah



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 1646
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thrashbeast wrote:
Jesus fucking christ you guys, this talk is extremely gay for a metal board. Anyone who spends time studying numbers and tones and formats and shit is a fucking nerd.

And the guy that said he got mental fatigue from listening to CDs, give me a fucking break...


so why are you here?????
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Iscariah



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 1646
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to talk about beers, post crazy metal party pics & how you look with your backpatch, go visit another forum..
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thrashbeast



Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 428

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reed wrote:


It's a forum full of nerds dude.


Exactly. And this thread put it over the top for me...

Like Chris mentioned, it gets old. If you guys aren't discussing shit like this, you're talking about the limitation of a certain release, what color vinyl it's on, how many were pressed, how crappy the artwork is, how the band sold out and is now selling records at Hot Topic, etc.

Very seldom do I see anyone discussing actual music. If I do, it quickly turns to any one of the topics I mentioned.

I wish things would go back to the way they were a decade ago when NO ONE gave a shit about vinyl. And again, I have nothing against the format. As I've said many times, every format has it's own advantages and disadvantages. I just think it sucks how the resurgence of vinyl has brought nothing to the metal scene other than elitists who think they're special because they prefer their music on it and collector scum who only seek out and obtain limited versions for no other reason than to make a profit from it.

Aside from Southern Lord, this forum is at the forefront of the "vinyl metal collector" world. Nothing against Yosuke, either. I've supported his label and the music he releases before he even had a webstore and I'll continue to do so. Sadly though, this forum nowadays is nothing more than a place for the collector crowd to gather where they can discuss the superiority of vinyl, brag about a particular release they scored, and post photos of it for others to drool over. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I don't think so. I'm sure others will agree with me.

I think I'll limit my presence here from now on to getting information about labels, checking out new bands, keeping up on Yosuke's releases, and watching for local gigs. That's about all this place is worth to me anymore.
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Jacy Catlin



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 369
Location: Eau Claire, WI USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously there are other reasons for wanting vinyl release. Guy who spends $150 on an OOP LP which he could have on CD for $12 is not spending an extra $138 on a little better sound.

Audio CD format has had the same sampling rate since CD was introduced in 1982. A few other formats like the 10 year old Super Audio CD and DVD Audio are much, much better. They also are pretty unpopular as regular audio CDs are "good enough" for mass market consumers.

A digital recording can have a higher sampling rate than a music CD. A CD-R, hard drive, DAT tape, DVD, flash drive, etc could have much bigger file size and therefore more information present to be pressed on LP. So an LP from digital source does not equal "CD transfered to LP" though for many underground bands that may be the case.

Analog does not necessarily trump digital, but LP format trumps CD format any way you look at it.
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H.K.Blasphemer



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 709

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does good quality even matter when our music is suppose to be noise that sounds like shit Very Happy
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Doomchild



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I have to say is you MUST own the first 4 SABBATH vinyls on VERTIGO UK!!!!!!!! or german.

any QUAD. fans out there?

I still use my old 1973 Marantz Quad amp!

yeah mighty yosuke, how bout a VON QUAD. release?!!!!!!!!

fuk yeah, now your talkin'!

fuk it, go out and buy a TEAC/JVC/AKAI/ or Pioneer Reel to Reel, tape/record ALL your vinyls onto a Reel tape, and enjoy the "real true analog sound" from the day!??

Doomchild.
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Doomchild



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here's one to think about you VINYL MANIACS:

Japanese Pressing's?

German Pressing's?

UK Pressing's?

and Im talkin 1960's, 70's, & 80's rock & metal.

which has a better sound quality?

or do you prefer? the obi strips/all the japanese inserts,etc....

I tell you what, find yourself an ORIGINAL Black Sabbath- "Master of Reality" LP GERMAN pressing, FUKERS WAY HEAVY!!!!!!!!!

and use a Ortofon or Stanton stylus please....

hail doom drinkers!

da doomchild.
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tomas



Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Endless Morbidity:
"recording on tape or digitally means nothing. It's how you actually play"

Judging from this, I can say that you've never recorded anything in your life Laughing
When we record, it's always on tape with a 4-track, and it actually delivers a warmer, better and fatter sound than those two times we tried to record things digitally. We used the same mics, the same room, the same instruments, the same setting of amps, ... and the mics were almost on the exact place where they always are. And you know what? Those digital recordings sounded flat, cold and there were no dynamics.
OK, afterwards we put everything on a pc and burn it onto a CDr as a master, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't start with the best source to my ears (= analog recordings).

@rauta:
Does that mean that if I put those analog recordings on a pc at a 88200 rate, the sound will resemble analog sound?
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