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Sargeist - Feeding the Crawling Shadows 31.03.14
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Hallucinogen



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 621

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds kind of similar to Måneskyggens Slave or something, but I still can't hear a direct, note for note, rip-off. I'm not too familiar with Horna to be aware of any blatant thefts, but I do know that I really some riffs in some of their songs, like this one for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM2-6RnI1fs&t=1m56s
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Anyone who plays the guitar knows how easy it is to get the triumphant/epic style that many bands seem to favor. The dreaded "finnish sound." You need precisely one (1) idea, which enables you to create an unlimited amount of variations of that sole idea. For a layman (no offense), preferably with blasts and a good sound to boot, it's the coolest thing ever. In reality, it's the cheapest way into writing black metal music.
Wait, so are you saying that because it's not hard to play, it's bad? I'm not sure I quite get what your argument is. Does it matter if it's an "easy" and common thing if it can lead to riffs that sound good? Like, for example that riff in Malign's Fireborn. It sounds amazing, but it's really easy to play, and you could say that it's a variation of those two note harmony riffs that are so common, but why does that matter if the riff sounds good? Also, you don't necessarily need to be a layman to enjoy "simple" music.
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Cedric



Joined: 09 Apr 2010
Posts: 668
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the best black metal bands ever. Their performance at Nidrosian was incredible.
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Feuersturm



Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 655
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hallucinogen wrote:
It sounds kind of similar to Måneskyggens Slave or something, but I still can't hear a direct, note for note, rip-off.


It's lifted from Krig. With subtle changes.

Hallucinogen wrote:

Wait, so are you saying that because it's not hard to play, it's bad?


I'm saying it's bad not only because it's a copout in terms of songwriting, but more importantly because it's rehashed, run of the mill, generic recycling that keeps getting done over and over and over again. While I do enjoy polyphony, technicality, innovation and attention to detail, I also like plenty of relatively simple music that usually comes with some redeeming factor. However, the combination of things Mikael pointed out which are remarkably apparent in this kind of music are the main culprits to why it becomes so hard to withstand. I wish the bands would raise the bar themselves, instead of delegating that task to the listener.

Wondrous things can be done with the same elements that are present in Sargeist's music. Sometimes it's hard to explain why one album is ten times better than the other, even if both consist of seemingly similar buzzsaw guitars, blastbeats, harsh vocals and a big ol' general ruckus. These things do not automatically amount to anything special and a great difference can arise from nuances. I don't want to lecture about tastes (or more precisely lack of time invested which plays an important role in the development of tastes) here but I have to say while this stuff might sound appealing for the first few times, by the 500th time it's not exactly fresh anymore.
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astralvesl



Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 983

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt Shatraug thumbs through old albums looking for riffs to steal. The guy has recorded more riffs than most people would ever even consider playing. He obviously enjoys black metal, no stretch of the imagination to assume certain riffs would resurface over time, not like we're listening to Chopin here.

I view Finnish black metal as the most punk of black metal: it's simple, to the point, repetitive, and w/o much innovation. There's typically a focus on a specific sound/atmosphere/image as opposed to variation. It's not for everyone but it's also not trying to be something it's not. There are bands out there trying to make their brand of black metal innovative, Sargeist is not one of them.
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Hallucinogen



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 621

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does sound similar to the first part in that Krig riff, but the overall chord progression or whatever is different, so I would call it "derivative" instead of a direct lift.

I do agree that for a large part, it does sound like generic recycling, but then there are these really good riffs inbetween that while perhaps being somewhat derivative (such a shocking thing in black metal), are still so very pleasant to listen to. The accusations of laymanship and inexperience might hold true for me, but I highly doubt they apply to all fans of Sargeist and Horna Laughing
I think you should consider the possibility that some people are more "inclined" toward riffs like this instead of them simply being easily impressed.


Last edited by Hallucinogen on Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Carpathian_Florist



Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 1000

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must be in the odd, because I thought "Let The Devil In" had very memorable songwriting.
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hevosrunkkari



Joined: 18 Nov 2011
Posts: 298
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Sargeist a whole lot, new track sounds ok but...just ok. Its same as with many bands, their best stuff is found on EPs and splits. Still, Satanic Black Devotion is a one milestone of finnish black metal and very personal album for me. Their best recent stuff is no doubt Lair of Necromancy. Full albums seems to have always several filler tracks, its a shame.

But yeh, I dont understand the general whining about Sargeist here, yet same time people going crazy for typical boring finnish bm like Cosmic Church.
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asmael LeBouc



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 3465
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astralvesl wrote:
I doubt Shatraug thumbs through old albums looking for riffs to steal. The guy has recorded more riffs than most people would ever even consider playing. He obviously enjoys black metal, no stretch of the imagination to assume certain riffs would resurface over time, not like we're listening to Chopin here.

I view Finnish black metal as the most punk of black metal: it's simple, to the point, repetitive, and w/o much innovation. There's typically a focus on a specific sound/atmosphere/image as opposed to variation. It's not for everyone but it's also not trying to be something it's not. There are bands out there trying to make their brand of black metal innovative, Sargeist is not one of them.


Very well put.
Shatraug is excessively prolific, seems to be a Finnish trend, perhaps too much for his/his bands own good, but really that guy is a fat fucking genius and has composed some OUTSTANDING riffs. Classic BM riffs, cold as fuck, catchy as hell, beautifully hateful,

and he doesnt give a shit
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Carpathian_Florist



Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 1000

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone uploaded the full album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG-0BRn36Mc
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frostjunkie



Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Posts: 1338
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was 90% sure I was going to be rick-rolled.
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