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SUPPLY AND DEMAND
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13



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1972
Location: Nidaros

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:43 am    Post subject: SUPPLY AND DEMAND Reply with quote

Us labels are doing our best to release good music, when something is sold out we try to repress. Here's what happens:

-people are pissed because things are hard to get and go on a rampage no matter if we say it will be repressed.
-we repress the demanded release.
-we end up with a storage full of the once desired release and copies are moving, in some cases, slow.

People gotta remember:

we press what we think is enough and from what we can afford(!). No one is cashing in here exploiting anyone. Releasing Black Metal isn't paying enough for us to really care about YOU.

This goes for most underground labels. Relax with your god damn nonsense and chill out for fucks sake. It's getting ridiculous out there.

Oh, and a huge fuck off to record store day.

In fact, fuck all.

End transmission.
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Weltering in Blood



Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 2257
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supply obviously doesn't meet the demand in many instances, hence the subsequent drama.
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cmflesh



Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 406
Location: FINNLAND

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHEN COMES THE REPRESS?????????
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LordKrumb



Joined: 04 Feb 2015
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post, 13.

Too many spoilt brats around who 'need' to own everything!

I said something about the same subject in another discussion:

LordKrumb wrote:
eldera777 wrote:
Ac!dM!nd wrote:

Better be angry to labels who make limited editions and no represses.

This - actually it's that simple....


I don't think it's always "that simple".

Every pressing is limited. The label pays for a quantity they can afford / quantity they think might sell (sometimes it's hard to know how well something will sell).

If it sells well, the label makes some money.

Do they spend that money on a repress? When? Now? Later?

What if they need the money for other releases? Then what if those other releases don't sell so well?

Maybe at some point the label has enough 'spare' money to repress something that sold out. There are people selling the original pressing on discogs/ebay/forums for high prices. And there's a bunch of people asking for it on forums. This gives the label some confidence that there's a demand for a repress. But how much demand? The minimum quantity for a repress might be 200-300 copies... How many people actually want a copy? 10? 50? 500?

In some cases it might be extremely obvious that a repress of 500 copies will sell in a reasonable time. But in other cases, the demand could be way lower than expected. Then the label's money is tied up in that unsold stock, instead of being available to pay for other releases.

Like any retail business, labels have to be careful with the limited amount of money they have.

Futhermore, the growing number of "flippers" (people who buy extra copies of a release to sell at high prices later) is making the problem worse. They are taking copies out of the marketplace that the label/distros could have sold, at a normal price, to someone who genuinely wanted a copy to LISTEN to.
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Wolfram



Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 2867

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you pop a few friday beers and decided to burst your frustration after finding some crying customers in the mail who missed out on the latest Flipskyrghyggiing LP on red vinyl there Ole?
Well good for you Laughing

You missed out? You should've ordered earlier!
You really want the record? Stop bitching about it and fork up the money, even if the initial price doubled or tripled.

Have a good weekend fruitcakes!!
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funeralfog666



Joined: 29 Oct 2010
Posts: 791
Location: usa

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Wolfram"]
You missed out? You should've ordered earlier! /quote]

Exactly!!!
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asmael LeBouc



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 3691
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points overall.
The high-speed internet makes things and people go out of control

However sometimes some limitations are absurd, i.e. Perturbator's last 2 LPs
The 1st vinyl release of Perturbator sold quickly and so did the 2nd! That is SOLID PROOF that ATM "many" people are crazy about Perturbator.
Just look at the number of people following Perturbator on Soundcloud: +14000
And this is just Soundcloud
Facebook: +21000 "likes"

That indicates CLEARLY that at least 1000 copies should have been pressed of each album. As a label, one should pay attention to some facts/figures that are reliable tools to evaluate the demand.
Of course not all 21000 people "liking" Perturbator would buy the vinyl but if only 5% do, well, that's the 1000 copies I was referring to.

It's different with your latest release 13; whose hype was rather unpredictable.

Sadly enough this is just hardcore consumerism. My old lady goes through the exact same silliness ATM with a French DIY fashion brand that sells limited shit online exclusively. Same shit: in less than an hour most items are sold out, crazy Parisian chicks go bananas over some checked shirt and buy buy buy like crazy.
As you said: supply and demand
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Morbid Obesity



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
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Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buy now or cry later
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lifeless



Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 1127
Location: deep space crime, toronto

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spoiled kids

the thing I lament about metal these days is that it does sometimes lack the true idea of "struggle"
refreshing to see in some true punk circles, a feeling of gratitude for what they have (obviously, I mean outside of the collector-mentality driven morons)

Quote:
It's been a few years now - we're going strong
We've been through a lot of good and bad
Some gave up - they had no heart
For you and me - this world won't tear us apart
From the East Coast to the West Coast
Inside myself I can hear the screams
The style - all over
It may be different - but in our hearts - it's all the same
Don't forget the struggle
Don't forget the streets
Don't forget your roots
And don't sell out!

What the fuck has happened to you?
You think you're a rock star - you're trapped inside a cage
You're ego trip has brainwashed you - you forgot the past
Now your future won't last
It won't last

Street kids had your back right from the start
Played your music day and night
For what you stood for, they would even fight
Now your eyes have turned fire red to money green
They've turned fire red to money green (3x)
Never give in to any of their fuckin shit

From the East Coast to the West Coast
Inside myself I can hear the screams
The style all over
It may be different, but in our hearts it's all the same

I can hear the screams
Inside myself I can hear the screams!


Warzone- Don't Forget The Struggle, Don't Forget The Streets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qhHmPvhiHI
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Cross of Donar



Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 831
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asmael LeBouc wrote:
hype


There's your problem. People want that stuff NOW because it's hip. In the time between the initial release and the repress, the hype is gone. So it makes sense the repress is not moving. I've sold editions of 300-500 LPs out in a couple of days, and later pressed CD hardly moved. On the other hand, there's plenty of stuff I keep in print for 5+ years / thousands of copies and still sells today.
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holy ghost



Joined: 16 Jan 2011
Posts: 5926
Location: CANADA RULES EH

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hopen you guys are enjoying this self-congratulatory circle jerk. Razz

Often times labels release things in absurdly low quantities. Clearly that's something that happens, but not always. If shit is hitting discogs right away it's a safe bet there's more demand than supply. If that's the case, people are going to kvetch, and they're going to perpetuate the cycle by buying from some ebay flipper. I think people dislike this a) because it sucks, and b) in my case I'd rather give my cash direct to the label/band....
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Nocturnal Deathstrike



Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 2303

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoy it being able to buy a release even 3-4 years after it got released.... I still have releases available which got released 6 years ago and longer...
Labels who bitch about "space" and complain when a release moves slow as a reason for not pressing enough copies can fuck off too in my book !
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harmless



Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 2160
Location: 101 Reykjavík, Iceland.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't something like Indiegogo be the middleground here? That is to say, if the label was interested. That way the label could offer those that missed out the opportunity to purchase said item and at the same time limit the risk of having piles of dead stock. Right
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aphidhair



Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So much anger here on both sides for something relatively minor in the long run. I completely understand labels not wanting to be saddled with 2nd or 3rd press dead stock taking up space that could be going to new releases that will actually sell. I also understand the annoyance of fans who can't get said releases due to small amounts initially pressed. But let's take a step back for a moment. Labels should be happy they're selling out of things. Bands should be happy because people want to actually listen to their bullshit. And records do get repressed usually if they are "good" enough. Patience is required. I will say, it's kinda sad that the buying public are so fickle and so at the whim of hype that they will lose interest in something almost as fast as it took for them to buy up a record's first pressing. But such is the nature of buying records that are no longer hard to get, as well what it means to be part of popular culture at large right now. Which leads to another tangential point (stop reading now).

Times aren't just changing; they've changed. People bitching that it doesn't take as much work to get a record they want like back in the good ol' days (I was there, it wasn't that cool) are like people complaining that their mail comes too fast. It's silly. And like it or not, the internet is here to stay, coming with it nearly instant access to records we could only dream about finding in 1995, but also a whole new bunch of people who can and will buy whatever records tastemakers say they should. And these tastemakers have been saying they should buy certain black metal records for more than a few years now (until of course they find out they are nazi sympathizers or hate things they shouldn't hate), and it's only gotten more popular to snatch up these records no one would've given a shit about 5 years ago. Queue pictures of indie rockers with Incantation shirts, and Vice referring to Black Cilice as "dope." It's the nature of consumerism and a music industry based on garnering hype in order to move units. And like every trend based on illusion and garnering cultural capital, people will move on. And the flippers will be left with records they can't sell, labels will have to reevaluate record pressings, and fans will be able to buy records that won't sell out in a month again. Fine by me. It's life in late stage capitalism, folks.
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Cursed Emperor



Joined: 30 May 2011
Posts: 717

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nocturnal Deathstrike wrote:

Labels who bitch about "space" and complain when a release moves slow as a reason for not pressing enough copies can fuck off too in my book !

THIS
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