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Storm - Nordavind LP BOOTLEGGED????
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ravn



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Posts: 634

PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frostjunkie wrote:
Is this the same guy that did the somewhat recent first two Dodheimsgards, Enslaved(Vikingligr Veldi), Arcturus, Merciless, Deicide, etc. boots?


yes
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Mz412



Joined: 07 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

s.charlach wrote:
... but if all those "fans" would care a teensy bit about the music, they could easily settle for the CD versions that go for less than those ridiculously overpriced vinyl bootlegs. But god forbid, the have to have of vinyl and vinyl only...


For what buying the X Times Samael Lp again, doesn't be enought to have one or two Versions? So, how comes that the new Pic Lp of Worship him for 20€ is sold after all?

It doesn't matter if its official or bootleg, since there are so much Bootlegs around where claimed official, nobody gives a fuck about it, so long it is KVLT, Trüe and Penis Enlargement at Fuck.
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Rósachd



Joined: 09 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

s.charlach wrote:
but if all those "fans" would care a teensy bit about the music, they could easily settle for the CD versions that go for less than those ridiculously overpriced vinyl bootlegs. But god forbid, the have to have of vinyl and vinyl only...


Ravn caring about music? Sure Rolling Eyes
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Weltbrand



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laurent/Painkiller is the ultimate fruit.
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kjs



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 100
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If everyone knows who's behind all these (crappy) bootlegs, how is it possible for him to continue releasing those? No legal action from labels/artists?
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s.charlach



Joined: 20 May 2008
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Location: ...am Hexenstieg (Germany)

PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mz412, I'm not sure if I can follow you. First of all, way to take the two concluding sentences right out of context to go on with a whole other field. Anyway, so you're saying there's no difference between Black Vomit Records making an effort to bring an official vinyl re-release of an iconic record on its way and carelessly done bootlegs? C'mon, I fail to see where the fact that an official vinyl re-release sells well is a question of " KVLT, Trüe and Penis Enlargement at Fuck", and by the way, everyone in his right mind should have realised by now that those Painkiller bootlegs are nothing but a waste of money, always been and probably always will be simply because people buy them regardless which is the exact reason why there's a certain touch of irony when people still express their hope for "at least decent quality". That's what I was talking about, NOT about collectors building up some kind of archive or whatever their reasons are to own more than just one copy of an album. You know, it's just that there seems to be this logical gap, paying 25 Euro, or even more based on what I've seen some titles going for, for a better beer mat while hell breaks loose when Tormentor charges 30 Euro for their more than worthy re-releases. This doesn't make sense to me at all. Just in case anyone's about to bring that up, please spare me the whole "Yeah, but you can get those bootlegs for like 12 Euro each from Laurent directly." speech, even 12 Euro isn't an equivalent value for this rubbish. And that's just about simple math, I don't even want to start about terms like respect and dedication here.

I have no idea what's your beef with ravn is exactly, Rósachd, but I don't know that guy personally and honestly couldn't care less about his listening habits. I was just asking about the reason for his purchase of that Trelldom bootleg when he thinks those Painkiller boots are so crappy. That's that. That last part you quoted was written more out of anger about a certain type of fans, a type I tried to describe with the little boring story about that friend of mine. He can go on and on of how much those early Ulver albums mean to him which serves as sole reason why he has to own them on vinyl without realising the absurdity buying a half-assed bootleg then. I just can't see how someone is able to draw a line from one thing to the other.

But what am I still talking, I'm out of here...
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Mz412



Joined: 07 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Answer was Sarcastic and in the End for the Customer, who paid for the Vinyl there is no real Difference beside Emotional Moral Belief and thats all. My Sarcastic Penis Enlargement Statement is for the whole Bootleg Situation at all. There are less and less People who could really say, they don't have any Bootleg at Home and much more Important for this Moral Issue, there are so much Bootlegs around, who are sold as Original and Nobody can really say if its really a Bootleg or not. So, in my Eyes the whole Crying about a Expensive Bootleg is in the Time of World Web 3.6 useless, since Nobody Cares about it. And that includes you as everyone else here. Everyone could write the Bands/labels about it, could tell the Police/any Lawyer about it and of course so many won't live too far away from the People, who do Bootlegs. And what happens since Beginning of Bootlegs in Black Metal? Yeah, the Shit sells like Hell and the Guys are Crying like Babys.

And the other Point, to rerelease a LP, which is rereleased so often, how many Collectors buys it and how many news Fans? Most of the Lps will went into Collections and propably won't be played more than 1x or 2x, so where is the Sense in this, besides of Penis Enlargement, Collector Behaviour and Feeling better with a Nice Looking Release?

And as Conclusion, isn't it a little bit Ironic, tipps to record Bootlegs?

http://www.nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38560&highlight=
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ravn



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

s.charlach wrote:
I was just asking about the reason for his purchase of that Trelldom bootleg when he thinks those Painkiller boots are so crappy.



Well....i dont know if the Trelldom LP i bought, was bootlegged by Laurent...to be honest ,i only bought that for the sleeve,so i could frame it in...
i dont say all bootlegs are crap...but as mentioned above...the Ulver,Dodheimsgard etc etc where crap.....
Actually the Trelldom looks good..comparing to the "crappy" boots of Painkiller....so i cant say its an bootleg from him or not...
thats all
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s.charlach



Joined: 20 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite out yet...

Thomas, I think you're taking the easy way saying it was e. g. a simple task for anyone to put a lawyer on a known bootlegger's ass. This assumption was suggested before and as it turned out the cost-benefit calculation is in favour of the bootlegger as he had to be sued in the country of the band, the country of the rights-holding label as well as the country of the bootlegger. So no, it's not that easy to get the bootlegger by his balls simply because hardly any band / label is able to afford such a lawsuit. On a related note, it'd be interesting if Metal Blade had any success proceeding against the "Imrama" bootleg as I heard both the label and the band were furious about it given an official vinyl release was in the works, and they were looking into the possibilities of taking legal actions. Anyway, I agree with you on this, it's up to the fans to decide whether to red-card this shit or not but the market is right there unfortunately.

The highly speculative number of actual listeners of the "Worship Him" re-release really is a moot point in my opinion. If you query the sense behind a re-release like this you could also query the sense of releasing anything on vinyl in these days of speculating and flipping. "Penis Enlargement, Collector Behaviour and Feeling better with a Nice Looking Release" applies for re-releases just like for any other recent release or do you really think every guy who got a copy of "The Final Egg" is going to play the hell out of it. It just strikes me as a somewhat odd point for someone with a label himself to cast the effort of keeping an album in print in such a bad light.
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Mz412



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that some of the Customer would Play the Lp, since there is no other Medium of it (besides Mp3 Trades of course). With this Lp, you can't choose Tape or CD in the Moment, so the People MUST play it once to ripp off the Music to Files or Play it often, if they don't like to Ripp the Music.But thats not the Point. But to be true, i don't care since i can't control it. I'm happy it is on Vinyl cause i will play it. I also don't say that Rereleasing any Samael is wrong, but the Main Idea is something i would really call just for Collecting. There where so many Rereleases in the past Years of this Album you can freely choose. But in the End, the Customer buy what he WANT to buy, if its a Bootleg or if its an Original crappy Rereleae´se LP from BoB, Century Media or whatever like Unleahsed or Sodom, where are both totaly fucked up. But with this, the Crying is not as loud as about Bootleggers. I were absolute fucked up, when i got the First Batch of re-released BoB Mayhem and Burzum Lps, which couldn't even be played and whats BoB now?

On the other Hand, what are Agonia, Deathrune and all the others now? How comes thats so fucking much Bootlegs spread around. And funnily its not soo Hard to go against Bootleggers, since EMi made an Attempt with iron maiden, even Suicidal Tendencies made such an Attempt and looked for possibilities that their Live bootlegs won't sell regulary, in the US are much more but the Truth is absolute simple. The Metal Folk love Bootlegs and buy them, they won't change anything and they fear any Changing in this, cause Bootlegs are a "Kvlt" Factor after all. And thats in my eyes Scene Behaviour and Collectors Entertainment.

What i don't get, why this Crying about it? In the End, nobody cares about it. In this Forum you can read that Drakkar and Dark Adversary have had an issue about this Matter and there will be more in the Future, maybe about the Combat rerelease someone wrote in the Forum about Bootleg and will be rereleased, whatever.
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Dalen



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mz412 wrote:
In the End, nobody cares about it.


I do. There are times like these I'm thinking the time I will be downloading everything and burn cdrs is not too far. For some people music is just entertainment, for some a bit of entertainment along with collecting, for some passion along with a few beliefs, you choose where you belong. Personally, I would rather spend 25 euros on buying 2-5 cds, I hear people talking cds don't sell, yet no one does anything about it.

Sorry if I sound a bit rude by the way, it is not my intention.
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Reaper's Grave



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess an example was that vlad tepes / belketre bootleg from last year. Many many people bought this because there wasn't really any copies and the odds of tracking down the band for an official release is nonexistent.

Even the drakkar bootleg is debatable now given Cyril's history with LLN releases.

But for bands and labels who are able to be contacted, its a wonder why not reissue? If the band does not express interest and gets bootlegged at this point, its not the bootleggers fault entirely. Im sure some labels would be glad to reissue material from some bands the legitimate way.

The only things i can consider either is in cases where band split up/doesn't play live they are asking too much for the rights to reissue the albums, which sadly can be a factor to why some reissues do not happen. This music does have its share of egos and a band with some long lost classic material may see their albums go for $100+ and feel justified to ask thousands of dollars for a reissue rather than consider the only reason they go for that much is because theres not a currently available copy for $15-20. This is also towards the reason why some reissues (like Tormentor i'm assuming) had such a high price.

Though bands who simply do not have interest to reissue due to wanting to kvlt or for other reasons, i guess its inevitable. I'm wondering how long until someone reissues Sororicide discography. The band said no to labels who want to do an official release, but eventually a bootlegger will probably do an unofficial reissue and the band will have lost their chance to do an official one because the people who wanted it will have the bootleg.

I do agree situation can be difficult in situations where bootlegs come out just before the release of the official copies, and if the bootleggers beat them by a day or two, the label misses out rather than the bootleggers being the ones who get screwed and suddenly have an album nobody wants.

In the end the people who want an official copy can always get the originals, but its not like the band gets money from those either. I guess if the band doesn't want to rerelease their material (especially if they got offers to do so, or in cases where the problem is nobody can even contact the band anymore), then they also should not be upset when someone does illegitimately.
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Weltbrand



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laurent tried to rip me off with an original Bathory s/t vinyl inside of a bootleg yellow goat sleeve.

He lost when I took the issue to Paypal, and I was able to not only get my money back but also re-sell the Frankenstein LP for $40 to someone who I guess just wanted a clean vinyl.

He is also a complete faggot.
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Dalen



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is not just about bootlegs and the ethical part, what s.charlach is trying to explain is that anyone who buys that stuff will only get them for the sake of owning them on vinyl. Sure, I own a couple of bootlegs, but they're only demo, live recordings or stuff I bought dirt, dirt cheap. I saw someone was selling a well made Moonblood lp, well I don't think they will ever reissue their stuff so I would buy it if I would be able to get it for cheap you know. With albums that can see the light of a reissue, it's different and even if they were as well done as the official reissues, I think 25 euros is ridiculous even for a regular official lp, even if someone doesn't have any concerns about copyrights and all that.

Third and most important, crap (or even well made/priced) bootlegs fuel more stuff that have to do with anything but the music itself, and it's needless to say of course these are mostly bought by people who do buy music regularly and a portion of that money would definitely support, if not the same, some other bands' new/old releases. If no one would buy these bootlegs, people wouldn't make them in the first place and it's my obligation, Reaper's Grave's obligation, s.charlach's obligation, Mz412's obligation, Weltbrand's obligation, random name dropping here, but point is, everyone's choice to buy them or not. Maybe I'm stuck in other times when people cared about stuff besides owning something, I don't know, this is nothing but my opinion anyway
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Mz412



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
s.charlach is trying to explain is that anyone who buys that stuff will only get them for the sake of owning them on vinyl.


Since it fits here as well, i have a funny little Story. I talked about the Behavour of the People and that they won't care about everything than their own little World.
The Entry on Discogs and Metal Archives are now both false, since someone who bought the LP took the Infos from the LP directly and so Tracknames and Duration Times are now Different than Original. But who cares anyway about it? I won't change it, since it is false but its reflects Perfectly the behavour of the Internet Generation at all. Who cares about right/wrong Song Titles, Duration Times ect and who would care about Bootleg and not?

So, my Point...Ethical parts are only for yourself, not for any other around. If you care about Bootlegs or whatever, don#t think that someone else would so, too.
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