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Statement From Dave Lombardo Regarding Slayer Aust. Tour
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NK7
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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Location: Beograd, Srbija

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

southern_death wrote:
bashing irrationally (and resentfully) all BM after 1995 year... I guess if in the undergound all the labels, all the metalheads, all the BM musicians after that mighty year are copying and decaying, i don't know what can be said now of the active old classic bands or the mainstream heavy metal or BM...

Well I actually agree on Weakling probably not being the most fitting example I could throw there as they somehow have a slightly more personal sound. Should have mentioned that one band again but I thought I'd spare you the new 20-line spiel with childish insults you'd have to go through in that case.

As for the second part of your remark, yes it's definitely clear that a good 99% of what underground black metal produced in the last 15 years or so is more or less rubbish, being basically clones of clones cloning more clones. As pointed out earlier on the amount of truly classic albums in this timeframe is virtually non-existing -can't count more than five or six. By comparison, we had a much larger number of talented heavy/death metal bands establishing themselves and even some old ones came up with strong records.

Most modern black metal is basically interchangeable, you could replace the vocals of Belketre with the ones of Xasthur and won't even notice. When Hanneman calls it quits and Holt takes over you'll obviously hear the difference, now tell me it's the same when, say, some Horna guitarist leaves and his pal from Sargeist joins. You won't notice nor care because it's all a mess of incoherent junk anyway.
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Nasum



Joined: 29 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until anyone here arguing like a cunt devises a way to objectively measure quality in music, shut the fuck up.
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GoldenBull



Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps there is no way to objectively measure quality, but you can certainly make an objective comparison between two records and decide if they sound the same or not.

I have no idea how many bm albums have been released in the last 20 years. 100,000? 500,000? Whether you think there have been 2 good records since 1995 or you like hundreds of them, it's hard to argue with the thought that the vast majority of it is really similar sounding generic shit that nobody can even remember.
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Weltbrand wrote:
I actually had Emperor in mind for some reason, but yeah the same logic would apply to a shredded goat man with his dick flapping in the wind.
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john matrix



Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last mention of Dave Lombardo was on page 5.

Since then the thread has turned into NK7 telling all the kids to get off his lawn.
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Pestkrieg



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1249

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's also true however that in exactly the same way there are hundreds of 80s metal bands that don't sound distinct or unique, hundreds of thrash bands with similar sterile productions and vocalists, etc.

I do agree with Mr NK7 that BM has perhaps a greater share, due to the primitivism, minimalism and isolationist aspects, but just look at the morass of current DM bands that sound so similar to each other.

Ultimately there's great music in every genre, and the cream doesn't always float to the top; popularity and quality can't be equated. I think stating that the past is superior often comes a little big from being dogmatized, and growing up during that age.
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Mr. Raines



Joined: 08 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with everything NK7 says and I approve of his taste in shoes.
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Gruwel



Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 261
Location: West Coast, Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
As for the second part of your remark, yes it's definitely clear that a good 99% of what underground black metal produced in the last 15 years or so is more or less rubbish, being basically clones of clones cloning more clones. As pointed out earlier on the amount of truly classic albums in this timeframe is virtually non-existing -can't count more than five or six. By comparison, we had a much larger number of talented heavy/death metal bands establishing themselves and even some old ones came up with strong records.

Most modern black metal is basically interchangeable, you could replace the vocals of Belketre with the ones of Xasthur and won't even notice. When Hanneman calls it quits and Holt takes over you'll obviously hear the difference, now tell me it's the same when, say, some Horna guitarist leaves and his pal from Sargeist joins. You won't notice nor care because it's all a mess of incoherent junk anyway.

How many "truly classic" albums in other sub-genres in metal have been produced over the past 15 years?

The thing is, we know all the shitty bands because they're easy to find, ON THE BLOODY INTERNET. While I was born in '91, I can imagine "back then" you wouldn't hear about most of those super shitty bands because you found new music through friends, record stores, gigs and zines. All those combined could, give or take, throw a dozen of new bands at ya. With the internet though, an evening (not so) well spent will get you 10x that. Of course there's going to be more shitty bands if there are more bands to be found overall. It's not just bm, it's metal and actually music as a whole.

That said, it's all a matter of being capable of forming your own opinion (or if you lack one, copy someone elses) and check bands out, say "nah, this is shite", don't buy the CD or if you have it, throw it away and put on something by a band you do like. As far as I'm concerned "the spirit" is far from dead, it's just easier to find people and music you shouldn't waste your time on... Big deal.
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Worthless Joke



Joined: 24 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:

People in the '80ies/early '90ies were somehow able to tell what was good from what was not so good, you could listen to a Slayer clone and know it wasn't as good as the real deal and the market would turn bad records down. Not just that but each '80ies band had to have actual musicians in their ranks, you couldn't just get away with "it's more than just music" bullshit. That whole aspect is completely gone when even the most generic ukrainian lot has its own appreciation thread. There simply is no quality control on music anymore and too many completely clueless people involved, I mean there's just no way someone in his right state of mind can listen to Brenoritvrezorkze and think it's good music, it objectively is just noise


I've never read truer words on a message board. Glad to see not everyone is blind to the development metal has gone through these many years.

This must also be the reason that so much fewer people are into metal compared to the 80s/early 90s. Not many people are gonne listen to all this crap and hardly be able to find good bands through all the meaningless noise since they can't rely on recommendations anymore, because people will recommend any 'generic ukrainian' bullshit.
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ravage



Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pestkrieg wrote:

I think stating that the past is superior often comes a little big from being dogmatized, and growing up during that age.


I don't think this is neccessarily the case. I didn't grow up in that age (as in, I had been born by then but was too young to listen to anything on my own) yet most metal from mid 90ies onwards seems clearly inferior to me than metal up to and including the better Norwegian classics of the early 90ies.

This includes most of the newer bands that are regarded as great in the current underground, so it can't be merely conforming to expected standards. Something seems to be missing as far as I'm concerned but I can't always exactly articulate what, it's more of an instinctive thing. The lack of originality can be blamed to an extent but this doesn't cover it fully. For instance something like later DSO is not painfully unoriginal but still sounds somehow vapid.
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IXTAB
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Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3346
Location: Metalapolis, MN

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john matrix wrote:
The last mention of Dave Lombardo was on page 5.

Since then the thread has turned into NK7 telling all the kids to get off his lawn.
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