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SHINING are now doing a "movie"
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Mastubator



Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 336
Location: Sodom

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wilhelm wrote:
If Kvarforth says his goal is to reach out and promote his message of self-destruction, drugs, suicide and general homosexual depravity to his fan base- and if it's true that that message is causing even a fraction of those fans to reconvey the same chaotic idiocy- then I would say he's doing a relatively good job at sewing the kind of deathist anarchism which black metal musicians have been babbling about for the past 20 years.

But once again - what is a more reasonable goal for black metal at this point, in your estimation?



Are you suggesting that the aim of Black Metal is nothing more than to promote mental deficiancy, mornoic hedonism and to submit to addiction - all in the name of 'chaos'? Aren't these qualities inherant in mankind already, with or without any input from Kvaforth? In the grand scale of things he adds nothing, that he's just pissing into the sea and claiming to create waves on the ocean.

When listening to Blood Fire Death, Crossing the Fiery path or Goetia, for example, can you hear any hint of self deprecation? Or is it music that lifts the soul out from the mire, away from the stink of mediocrity?
Music should be personal, should move the emotions of the listener. Once it becomes about influencing others outside of your own listening experience it's then about ego inflation and the music becomes a second thought.

Quote:
Simple - to continue fueling the fire. If he stopped now he'd cease winning new converts and possessing dumb kids to cut and debase themselves. Why should he take the fall and cut things short when he can make others do it for him?


Exactly the same argument was used by the mullahs in the Iran-Iraq war. Why is it that you can promote martyrdom for your faith and country, how can you send of so many to die, yet you sit in safety at home, never to fight for your beliefs? Why not put your own life on the line?
'Because we must continue to fuel the belief. We are more effective here, if we were killed in battle then who would be as effective as we are in propagating the faith?"

Just as a mullah abuses his faith to ensure his own survival, so does Kvarforth. Paradoxical and parasitical, both are disgusting beings.
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Wilhelm



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1504

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mastubator wrote:
Are you suggesting that the aim of Black Metal is nothing more than to promote mental deficiancy, mornoic hedonism and to submit to addiction - all in the name of 'chaos'


Given the view of some of the progenitors of this scene that black metal should be about spreading chaos, discord and poisoning minds, then the answer to your question would likely be "yes".

Mastubator wrote:
Once it becomes about influencing others outside of your own listening experience it's then about ego inflation and the music becomes a second thought.


In relation to the genre being discussed this was the original intent of many of its key bands - spread chaos, hate, anger, anarchy, disease, fear, death etc... outside of the immediate listening environment. Unless you discovered black metal six days ago at Hot Topic I'm not sure why this should really be a mystery to you.
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lurking fear wrote:
CrucifixionWounds wrote:
Bolt Thrower didn't hold up well at all for me... no desire at all to ever listen to this band again.


Go brush your doll's hair.


Last edited by Wilhelm on Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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nosophoros



Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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In Solitude



Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 3767
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wilhelm wrote:
Isn't provocation a central part of BM or is being a myopic burnt out hobbyist who trades plastic discs and takes it seriously something closer to what you have in mind?


Still waiting for an answer. It's a good question, and a shame it is being avoided.
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Pestkrieg



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1227

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stalinorgel wrote:
Wilhelm wrote:
Isn't provocation a central part of BM or is being a myopic burnt out hobbyist who trades plastic discs and takes it seriously something closer to what you have in mind?


No.

Provocation for the sake of provocation is nothing but hot air. As I already said, only idiots and teenagers are into such things.

If your main goal is just to do things that people offend, then you probably have not much constructive to offer.

Others just do what they want, and don't need to be the circus-clown.


Exactly the case. It's self-defeating I think. The general public have a reactionary response to empty provocation; it may inspire a few impressionable youths to follow a path of self-destruction, but it does nothing of any value, and certainly is pretty impactless within the black metal scene overall.

I wouldn't say that many of the classic BM recordings rely on provocation; I can't see that DMDS, ITNE, Thy Mighty Contract, Ritual, Fallen Angel of Doom, etc. rely on such meaningless nihilistic posturing. Euronymous might have stated that he wanted to be hated and feared, but I don't think that Kvarforth's actions inspire that.

There's no need to draw a binary opposition between being provocative and being an insular collector, because there's a massive spectrum in between. Provocation is the field of mindless goregrind bands; black/death metal can encompass the call to action of Der Sturmer, the depressive nihilism of Nyktalgia, the intellectualism of DsO, the ritual occultism of Necros Christos, and the primitivistic atavism of any number of bands without resorting to something which is usually the reserve of talentless punks.
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Exitium



Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 1266
Location: Occiduus

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nuclear War Now forum:
the place which seems to consider itself the elite center of the underground, but neglects most small independent bands/labels, and can happily gossip about Shining for another six pages. Give yourselves a pat on the back, NWN.
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Blutkvlt wrote:
Wear your cunted out black metal shirts while practicing occult rituals like burning sage and posting quotes from Aleister Crowley on facebook.
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Stalinorgel
banned


Joined: 08 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fucking no, fuck this discussion and fuck the waste of time with mongoloids.

Last edited by Stalinorgel on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr_Belvedere



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 962

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exitium wrote:
Nuclear War Now forum:
the place which seems to consider itself the elite center of the underground, but neglects most small independent bands/labels, and can happily gossip about Shining for another six pages. Give yourselves a pat on the back, NWN.


You are right. Since several months this is no place to discuss metal and metal related themes in an adequate way anymore.
It's sad.
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Kojiri



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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Location: I'm here to mainstream your kvlt

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need more threads on Matrix numbers.
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NuclearGoatVomit wrote:
"Burn it and then piss!

Trade/Buy/Sell!: addo_of_nex, Black_Fire, bunyip, cannibal_riot, cursed blood, dawid, Deathammer, etdeath, wvrm
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Wilhelm



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1504

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stalinorgel wrote:
Fucking no, fuck this discussion and fuck the waste of time with mongoloids.


^^^^ I'll send you a new keyboard in working order. \m/
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lurking fear wrote:
CrucifixionWounds wrote:
Bolt Thrower didn't hold up well at all for me... no desire at all to ever listen to this band again.


Go brush your doll's hair.
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Morbid Obesity



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 1880
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kojiri wrote:
We need more threads on Matrix numbers.

+1
Where's Peter Ott when you need him? That's pretty much all he's good for. Laughing
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Wilhelm



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1504

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pestkrieg wrote:
Stalinorgel wrote:
Wilhelm wrote:
Isn't provocation a central part of BM or is being a myopic burnt out hobbyist who trades plastic discs and takes it seriously something closer to what you have in mind?


No.

Provocation for the sake of provocation is nothing but hot air. As I already said, only idiots and teenagers are into such things.

If your main goal is just to do things that people offend, then you probably have not much constructive to offer.

Others just do what they want, and don't need to be the circus-clown.


Exactly the case. It's self-defeating I think. The general public have a reactionary response to empty provocation; it may inspire a few impressionable youths to follow a path of self-destruction, but it does nothing of any value, and certainly is pretty impactless within the black metal scene overall.

I wouldn't say that many of the classic BM recordings rely on provocation; I can't see that DMDS, ITNE, Thy Mighty Contract, Ritual, Fallen Angel of Doom, etc. rely on such meaningless nihilistic posturing. Euronymous might have stated that he wanted to be hated and feared, but I don't think that Kvarforth's actions inspire that.

There's no need to draw a binary opposition between being provocative and being an insular collector, because there's a massive spectrum in between. Provocation is the field of mindless goregrind bands; black/death metal can encompass the call to action of Der Sturmer, the depressive nihilism of Nyktalgia, the intellectualism of DsO, the ritual occultism of Necros Christos, and the primitivistic atavism of any number of bands without resorting to something which is usually the reserve of talentless punks.


"it may inspire a few impressionable youths to follow a path of self-destruction, but it does nothing of any value"

That depends - if you want your message to cause people to self-destruct, and they self-destruct, then the results are certainly of value to the purveyor of that message. To you or I Kvarforth should probably be terminated, but why deny this guy is at least somewhat successful in breathing life into the principles he conveys to his audience?

I agree with the highlighted statements in your quote though, the rest we'll have to disagree on. Good post otherwise. If the Stalinorgel mongrel had explained himself in this manner instead of dodging questions and then finally giving up and going "FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU!!1!" I would have taken it easier on him (now he's on my spank list).
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lurking fear wrote:
CrucifixionWounds wrote:
Bolt Thrower didn't hold up well at all for me... no desire at all to ever listen to this band again.


Go brush your doll's hair.
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Wilhelm



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1504

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morbid Obesity wrote:
Kojiri wrote:
We need more threads on Matrix numbers.

+1
Where's Peter Ott when you need him? That's pretty much all he's good for. Laughing


He's probably intoxicated by the essence of his Flames Of Hell LP (something which he has, but we don't).
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lurking fear wrote:
CrucifixionWounds wrote:
Bolt Thrower didn't hold up well at all for me... no desire at all to ever listen to this band again.


Go brush your doll's hair.
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Mr. Raines



Joined: 08 Apr 2012
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Rósachd



Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exitium wrote:
Nuclear War Now forum:
the place which seems to consider itself the elite center of the underground, but neglects most small independent bands/labels, and can happily gossip about Shining for another six pages. Give yourselves a pat on the back, NWN.
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