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Godkiller - The Rebirth of the Middle Ages LP
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Stalinorgel
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haunt In The Dark wrote:
I never found any appeal in picture-discs, bad sound, ruined artworks...


A typical 90ies disease....like digipaks.

Whatever, I will probably get this etchy record. It's Godkiller, so who cares about sound-quality. Too lazy to flip vinyl anyway, CDs are the shit.
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Haunt In The Dark



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a soft spot for all those old flashy Season Of Mist digipacks, haha.
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Mz412



Joined: 07 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonder again and again about this Sound Shit. Do you really have a 10.000 Record Player Station at Home and listen to some Bad Sounding Demo Releases on Vinyl there? Laughing
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Mr_Belvedere



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how much time everybody has to post page over page in a thread about some single record. Buy it, or not. It's 20 Euro or something. Nowadays this is not even a full petrol tank Rolling Eyes
And honestly, we are all way too long here to deny that if a pic-lp is bought, it's for nothing else but collectors frenzy.
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Haunt In The Dark



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 876
Location: Trve De Baal

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mz412 wrote:
Wonder again and again about this Sound Shit. Do you really have a 10.000 Record Player Station at Home and listen to some Bad Sounding Demo Releases on Vinyl there? Laughing


Well, feel free to listen to 128kbps MP3s of your favourite albums through your laptop' speakers if you want. There's an undeniable aesthetical appeal in "off" (rather than "low") production values, and I enjoy listening to how things sound carefully. You don't need crazy set-ups to have a decent sound too. And I don't buy demos pressed on LPs. Demos are demos and stay demos. Pressing them on a record later negates the fact they're demos and it's only done so that people can feel like they own this demo on record, nothing else.
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Pestkrieg



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Demos' are just recordings/pieces of music and if they're good and there's the demand, why not press them on vinyl?

Perhaps painters' sketches shouldn't be framed because that 'negates the fact' that they are sketches?
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Haunt In The Dark



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pestkrieg wrote:
'Demos' are just recordings/pieces of music and if they're good and there's the demand, why not press them on vinyl?


BEcause they're not proper releases, they're demos. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
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Pestkrieg



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What makes them any different though? They're released freely, accessible to anyone usually...it's just a recording and any distinctions are just arbitrary lines drawn in the sand.

If it's good music and vinyl is the best sounding format, then it makes sense to put it on vinyl.
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asmael LeBouc



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow the "demo should stay demo" is a new and retarded point Laughing

Think: tapes grow old, lose quality noticeably, some eevn become unplayable/unlistenable. Dubbed demo tapes=terrible quality that age very bad

Demo on vinyl= higher sound quality, no deterioration, and the possibily to play it real loud.

So please PLEASE cut the shit.
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Mz412



Joined: 07 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haunt In The Dark wrote:
Mz412 wrote:
Wonder again and again about this Sound Shit. Do you really have a 10.000 Record Player Station at Home and listen to some Bad Sounding Demo Releases on Vinyl there? Laughing


Well, feel free to listen to 128kbps MP3s of your favourite albums through your laptop' speakers if you want. There's an undeniable aesthetical appeal in "off" (rather than "low") production values, and I enjoy listening to how things sound carefully. You don't need crazy set-ups to have a decent sound too. And I don't buy demos pressed on LPs. Demos are demos and stay demos. Pressing them on a record later negates the fact they're demos and it's only done so that people can feel like they own this demo on record, nothing else.


Ah i understand. If someone havn't a 10.000 Record Player he MUST listen to Mp3's, since there is noooooooothing between this two Options. Laughing

I have several Demos, which sounds better than most Bruatl Goat War Bands, so this point is Bullshit. It depends of the Music, not the Medium. You can listen to ildjarn on a fucking expensive Record Player with 5minutes on a 78rpm Side and it will sound like Ildjarn anyway, so its total idiotic to listen to Underground Black metal with somekind of Sound Quality Standarts. If you would listen to a Unplugged Live Album i would understand it, but come one...its Godkiller and not Wagner
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NK7
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stalinorgel wrote:
Haunt In The Dark wrote:
I never found any appeal in picture-discs, bad sound, ruined artworks...


A typical 90ies disease....like digipaks.

More like a typical late '90ies myth. Picture discs started sounding like shit after you-know-which-pressing-plant started making them. I have several pic discs made in the '80ies and they all sound brilliant, I could play you my Running Wild Death or Glory picture disc and you couldn't tell it from the regular vinyl, same goes for old Death SS, Maiden, Manowar pics disc, even more recent stuff like Entombed's LHP and the first Darkthrone sound crushing on this format. If the manufacturer knows how to do his job, the final outcome is virtually just as good as regular black vinyl or only slightly (by that meaning almost impossible to perceive unless you have bionic ears) worse. Bottom line, people talking shit of this format obviously never heard a properly pressed picture disc and only do so because their GZ Blasphemophagher sounds like crap (and it does sound like crap indeed)

I know you'll say I'm a broken record on this issue but really, everything in metal went terribly wrong after GZ/Pirates press became the nr.1 choice for the amateurish one-man-label run by the clueless late-'90ies Dissection fan with shit taste in music.
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Haunt In The Dark



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mz412 wrote:
Haunt In The Dark wrote:
Mz412 wrote:
Wonder again and again about this Sound Shit. Do you really have a 10.000 Record Player Station at Home and listen to some Bad Sounding Demo Releases on Vinyl there? Laughing


Well, feel free to listen to 128kbps MP3s of your favourite albums through your laptop' speakers if you want. There's an undeniable aesthetical appeal in "off" (rather than "low") production values, and I enjoy listening to how things sound carefully. You don't need crazy set-ups to have a decent sound too. And I don't buy demos pressed on LPs. Demos are demos and stay demos. Pressing them on a record later negates the fact they're demos and it's only done so that people can feel like they own this demo on record, nothing else.


Ah i understand. If someone havn't a 10.000 Record Player he MUST listen to Mp3's, since there is noooooooothing between this two Options. Laughing

I have several Demos, which sounds better than most Bruatl Goat War Bands, so this point is Bullshit. It depends of the Music, not the Medium. You can listen to ildjarn on a fucking expensive Record Player with 5minutes on a 78rpm Side and it will sound like Ildjarn anyway, so its total idiotic to listen to Underground Black metal with somekind of Sound Quality Standarts. If you would listen to a Unplugged Live Album i would understand it, but come one...its Godkiller and not Wagner


Read carefully what I wrote and try again or stop the bad faith.

asmael LeBouc wrote:
Wow the "demo should stay demo" is a new and retarded point Laughing

Think: tapes grow old, lose quality noticeably, some eevn become unplayable/unlistenable. Dubbed demo tapes=terrible quality that age very bad

Demo on vinyl= higher sound quality, no deterioration, and the possibily to play it real loud.

So please PLEASE cut the shit.


Records gets scratched and break much more easily than tapes, come on. The tape the music is printed on is enclosed in a shell whereas you put your fingers and billions of other little things on the surface of a record.

Demos should stay demos because if the bands thought it was worth pressing in a different format, they would have done it. Demos pressed on records happen because there are too many labels popping out of nowhere and too many opportunities for the most obscure and/or mediocre bands to do things like that. Again, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Quite a few labels asked one of my bands to release our demo tapes on vinyl and we said no each time, and we'll keep saying no all while working on writing and recording material for a proper record, because these were demos. In the meantime, we keep repressing our demos on tape and they keep selling out. As long as people want them, we'll keep pressing them. But never on record. Ever.
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Mz412



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Demos should stay demos because if the bands thought it was worth pressing in a different format, they would have done it.


There is a Logic Mistake, maybe you find it yourself.
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Reaper's Grave



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stalinorgel wrote:
Haunt In The Dark wrote:
Etchings on records never look good and labels that do this kind of thing obviously don't care about the way things sound.


No expert on this, so I may ask: How does the etching affect the sound quality? I mean, it's not the same side.


I'm not an expert either, nor do i have an expensive enough turntable to notice on a black metal demo, but i think it goes something like:

Most records pressed at 33rpm have about 18 minutes per side before the sound quality starts to diminish because the grooves have less space, which does affect the dynamic range. Given the way analog is set up, records have these limitations based on their size anyway. If we had a 45RPM two sided record to compare, the sound would be a lot more full on a decent hi-fi system than this one sided 21 minute record.

Not to mention that an etching would probabbly cost more than just pressing music on that side anyway, concluding that the release is just simply a marketing gimmick rather than a format dedicated to preserving the actual album.

Yeah i know most people aren't going to notice the difference of their Revenge and Black Witchery records anyway, but it seems courteous if you're going to invest in releasing a band you want their release to sound the best possible you can rather than spend thousands of dollars on the most elaborate wall/mantle decoration a stamp collector can find. Why not go the extra mile and kvlt the release by only doing 100 copies of it too? Its more the blatant disregard towards fans who just want to have a good listening copy.

Regarding picture discs, i somehow doubt the human ear (and especially my damaged ears) can really tell the difference. Useless waste to me. I'll stick to regular vinyl unless picture disc is significantly cheaper and easier to get and i'm stuck with it. Just another "collectible" rather than music. Part of why i definitely prefer the punk scene to metal scene with the format is there's less collector only gimmicks. The average record is pressed 500-2000 copies on black vinyl regular jacket and maybe a printed insert and done. Stuff like gatefolds, picture discs, specific colors, etc are usually done for artistic reasons and only the super political bands like aus-rotten have i ever seen with posters (usually with all their political info they're trying to talk about). That way the only thing that matters is listening to the album and reading the lyrics, like it should be.

With the demos argument there's a fine line. We're seeing especially in the past couple years every half-decent demo getting the vinyl treatment. Not everything needs one. Demo collections like autopsy and von are nice, and demo only bands like voor. vlad tepes, and necrovore getting vinyl treatment has been great, but some bands demos don't need to be on vinyl, and in cases where they rerecorded all the tracks on early albums means unless the demo is better quality for them i probably wouldn't listen to it as much anyway, so it is just a waste for the stamp collectors and gotta catch em all types.
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nileppez



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AmaLurra wrote:
Musical tatse is subjective.

That's just as true as it is false, although NK7 is arguably not a good person to describe objectively what is good and what isn't.
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