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USBM before the Vice age
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Stalinorgel
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eighthplague wrote:
The "common feel" is simply how/where it was recorded and the fact that in smaller countries the band lineups are more incestual. The former has a lot to do with economics, the latter with location/country size. The US is a big place with a lot of different income types. Compare that to South American bands in the 80s or old Polish bands and it shouldn't be hard to figure this out.


Believe it or not, even though these countries may look small to a Yankee, France and Germany for example are also heavily populated with a lot of different income types AND they actually have quite distinct BM-traditions. And what about Brazil? HUGE country with a strong economy and a very fragmented society, do you think Sepultura et al. grew up in the Favelas and obtained their instruments through selling dope or mugging people? Or even more obvious Scandinavia: Relatively small countries (regarding population) but with overall high incomes AND extremely distinct/"incestual" scenes. Ergo: The social/economic-sciences approach fails as an explanation.

The main reason that the overall nowadays US-scene has no distinct sound is simply due to the fact that - besides the already mentioned (relatively few) pioneers - the ordinary US-metalhead just lacks ca. 10 years of BM-history and is delayed when it comes to the evolution or understanding of a national BM-tradition/style. So not much options left besides than to emulate the European forerunners who had already claimed the territory with their archaic folklore and ancient myths.
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eighthplague
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And believe it or not, for as large as you think Those European countries are, the US is faaaar larger, there are no localized scenes, and generally speaking, there are no studios used specifically by BM bands. If you can't figure out why a lot of Polish bands sound similar but US bands do not, beyond these intangible and fruity theories, there's something deeply wrong with how you process logic. 10 years experience? So every new European band has that naturally instilled in them, eh?

And now that I've disagreed with you, plead try your best to not stalk me, talk about my band, or being up how you are and ELITE SCENE VET. I don't know if I can handle the comedy.
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Stalinorgel
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eighthplague wrote:
And now that I've disagreed with you, plead try your best to not stalk me, talk about my band, or being up how you are and ELITE SCENE VET. I don't know if I can handle the comedy.


Don't worry, I don't consider you that interesting and you already talk more than enough about your band yourself (which I don't even know the name of, only this funny picture of yours).

Wink
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la_ciudad_podrida



Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 850
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

does anyone re-visit any of those velvet cacoon cds? I don't really like any of that shoegazy psuedo-bm stuff and VC stuff caters to hipsters and sounds very weak, but I can't help but kind of enjoy it still. Atropine is a pretty good ambient album also. listening to Genevieve right now, watery effeminate blackish metal that makes one think of boats and fog. Kind of outsider bm crap but almost interesting if you disregard that.

EDIT: i know this thread is about USBM BEFORE the vice age, im just curious.
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Hanshan



Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

la_ciudad_podrida wrote:
does anyone re-visit any of those velvet cacoon cds? I don't really like any of that shoegazy psuedo-bm stuff and VC stuff caters to hipsters and sounds very weak, but I can't help but kind of enjoy it still. Atropine is a pretty good ambient album also. listening to Genevieve right now, watery effeminate blackish metal that makes one think of boats and fog. Kind of outsider bm crap but almost interesting if you disregard that.

EDIT: i know this thread is about USBM BEFORE the vice age, im just curious.


Dude, if you like a band, own it. It's so funny to see people who obviously like this shoegazey bm sound try to protect their scene credibility by qualifying their like with a bunch of negativity. What's the point?
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Hateful_Reality



Joined: 28 Aug 2011
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets just say I am very happy that the Xasthur,Leviathan, Velvet Cacoon era's are dead and buried.
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eighthplague
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stalinorgel wrote:
eighthplague wrote:
And now that I've disagreed with you, plead try your best to not stalk me, talk about my band, or being up how you are and ELITE SCENE VET. I don't know if I can handle the comedy.


Don't worry, I don't consider you that interesting and you already talk more than enough about your band yourself (which I don't even know the name of, only this funny picture of yours).

Wink


Insightful and logical post.
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la_ciudad_podrida



Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 850
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not trying to defend my scene cred by saying vc is dumb. I'm not embarassed to listen to it ether and don't need justification, just want to hear other peoples thoughts
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Weltering in Blood



Joined: 24 May 2011
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This band were well featured in zines in the mid 1990s

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Into_the_Sunless_Meridian/20182

They had something going with Black Funeral, Nåstrond and Capricornus, right?
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global deathrape



Joined: 28 May 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that Velvet Cacoon's 'Genevieve' is one of the best black metal albums of the past decade, from any country, hell maybe even all time. I'm extremely picky when it comes to bm and I hate almost all post-rock/blackgaze/fag-gaze bullshit so I don't think I'm a typical VC fan, but that album has such a unique and special feeling to me. If I can listen to an album from start to finish without skipping tracks, I usually consider that to be a perfect album, and this is one of those few such albums.
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Sleep



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 42
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanshan wrote:
la_ciudad_podrida wrote:
does anyone re-visit any of those velvet cacoon cds? I don't really like any of that shoegazy psuedo-bm stuff and VC stuff caters to hipsters and sounds very weak, but I can't help but kind of enjoy it still. Atropine is a pretty good ambient album also. listening to Genevieve right now, watery effeminate blackish metal that makes one think of boats and fog. Kind of outsider bm crap but almost interesting if you disregard that.

EDIT: i know this thread is about USBM BEFORE the vice age, im just curious.


Dude, if you like a band, own it. It's so funny to see people who obviously like this shoegazey bm sound try to protect their scene credibility by qualifying their like with a bunch of negativity. What's the point?
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jameswolfe



Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Posts: 1962

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would Weakling be considered in this group? Or did they come out too late and piss everyone off for inspiring gay bands?
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Kojiri



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sleep wrote:
Hanshan wrote:
la_ciudad_podrida wrote:
does anyone re-visit any of those velvet cacoon cds? I don't really like any of that shoegazy psuedo-bm stuff and VC stuff caters to hipsters and sounds very weak, but I can't help but kind of enjoy it still. Atropine is a pretty good ambient album also. listening to Genevieve right now, watery effeminate blackish metal that makes one think of boats and fog. Kind of outsider bm crap but almost interesting if you disregard that.

EDIT: i know this thread is about USBM BEFORE the vice age, im just curious.


Dude, if you like a band, own it. It's so funny to see people who obviously like this shoegazey bm sound try to protect their scene credibility by qualifying their like with a bunch of negativity. What's the point?
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Tyga and Yelawolf on repeat here. Fuck the haters! Smile
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Ihslahm



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jameswolfe wrote:
Would Weakling be considered in this group? Or did they come out too late and piss everyone off for inspiring gay bands?


Influence or not, the band had a track released on a comp in 1997', demo in 1998 full length album in demo tape form in early 1999 and disbanded later in 1999, so timeframe-wise definitely. Despite the time of existence though, we were not at all interested in being part of any scenes and thought the usbm tag was idiotic so we didn't really do anything to promote ourselves or be in contact with anyone tagging themselves as "usbm". We did manage to play gigs with Mayhem and Enslaved, and a few usbm bands like Corvus Corax, Black Goat, and Thy Infernal. More often we just played with local bands doing something metal, or heavy, or dark like like Amber Asylum, Noothgrush, Noisegate, Exhumed, Slough Feg, Vile ... simply because there were almost no black metal bands around here.
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alexyorkalive



Joined: 14 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ihslahm wrote:
jameswolfe wrote:
Would Weakling be considered in this group? Or did they come out too late and piss everyone off for inspiring gay bands?


Influence or not, the band had a track released on a comp in 1997', demo in 1998 full length album in demo tape form in early 1999 and disbanded later in 1999, so timeframe-wise definitely. Despite the time of existence though, we were not at all interested in being part of any scenes and thought the usbm tag was idiotic so we didn't really do anything to promote ourselves or be in contact with anyone tagging themselves as "usbm". We did manage to play gigs with Mayhem and Enslaved, and a few usbm bands like Corvus Corax, Black Goat, and Thy Infernal. More often we just played with local bands doing something metal, or heavy, or dark like like Amber Asylum, Noothgrush, Noisegate, Exhumed, Slough Feg, Vile ... simply because there were almost no black metal bands around here.


I don't think you need to justify/clarify your "place" or lack of place in whatever "scene", John. Your work stands alone, I think, and really benefits from that isolation. It's one of those records that really does properly defy simple classification. Perhaps one of the last? The BM "spirit" is clearly there, though, and I'd argue it's there stronger than in most apparently "pure" BM records. There's a desperation there that you really don't hear much at all from other bands. It's funny reading about these bands who are apparently influenced by DAD. I don't hear it, personally. Certainly not in WITTR or somesuch. There was/is something unique about Dead As Dreams. Really interesting to hear that you gigged with these other bands. Had no idea. Do any recordings exist of these?
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