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Drowning the Light - 2013/14
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Feuersturm



Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 660
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:

Bullshit, this is the exact reason why post-'95 bm is worthless rubbish for the most part. All that "it's more than just music", "it's the spirit/atmosphere that matters" etc crap is a much convenient excuse bands use to make up for their chronical incapability to write interesting music. Modern black metal sucks because it's performed by lousy musicians who can barely handle their instruments, fuck "atmosphere" and give me proper metal riffs to bang my head to or just fuck off.


I always thought one major component in this matter was that old black metal albums often had pretty strong death metal roots, or the creative forces behind those albums did. When you listen to Transilvanian Hunger, you wouldn't believe that the same band was playing pretty trippy progressive death metal 5 years before. Same thing happened with Emperor, Immortal, Obtained Enslavement, even Vikernes was playing death metal before Burzum got started. There has to be something in that equation...

...because today, black metal bands clone black metal bands who cloned black metal bands. I don't know about others but to me that sounds like the recipe for disaster.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:
NK7 wrote:
Modern black metal is performed by lousy musicians who can barely handle their instruments...


Has this ever been different, if put that way? Would you say the early 1990ties Black Metal-records, considered and hailed as classics nowadays, have brimmed with musical craftsmanship? You can't be serious if you say so.

Darkthrone, Satyricon, Emperor, Thorns etc are/were all gifted musicians, Burzum/Hellhammer might be an exception to that rule (well, even those bands were technical geniuses compared to DTL) but if you can't see the obvious skills of people like Frost, Ihsahn, Snorre etc there's no point arguing here.

Quote:
Yes ofc, Black Metal was / remains to be more than music, because that's what it is all about: a listenable ideology/world view/belief system... whatever. Music as a means to an end and not as an end unto itself.

Sure, if you're 15. The reason why the bands we all praise became classics in their own subgenre is simple, their music was outstanding and stood the test of time. The "ideology" behind it was so retarded that even the same pioneers of the genre quickly moved out of it once they turned 20 or so, you should consider doing the same.

Quote:
The vast majority of shitty Black Metal-records do offer next to nothing for someone who needs "proper metal riffs to bang my head", period.

Fixed.
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da666



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 - why do you still refer to DTL as if it is just me? (further proof you probably have not heard a thing post 2007 and are just making throw away comments because your butt-hurt), or are you saying everyone who does and did contribute to the band is talentless?
I can agree im a sloppy guitarist, but the people i work with in the band past and present have more talent in their little finger then you will ever have in your entire existence period.
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DTBRex



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
obvious skills of people like Frost, Ihsahn, Snorre....


Obvious skills do not equal musical brilliancy (on a purely "technical" level). Of the latter, you don't find that much in Black Metal. And none of those you mentioned were that brilliant when they still played Black Metal.

NK7 wrote:

Sure, if you're 15. The reason why the bands we all praise became classics in their own subgenre is simple, their music was outstanding and stood the test of time. The "ideology" behind it was so retarded that even the same pioneers of the genre quickly moved out of it once they turned 20 or so, you should consider doing the same.


From the way you are posting here, I doubt you have even reached the age of 15... If you look at the genre as it was and still is, you see plenty of ideology that contributes much to the raison d'être of Black Metal. All the bands currently popular, like the ones from Nidaros, are "ideological" and put their beliefs above their music. There is none of them who'd say they play Black Metal for the sake of writing riffs someone can bang his head to.

But then, have it your way and good luck headbanging to Black Metal.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:
NK7 wrote:
obvious skills of people like Frost, Ihsahn, Snorre....


Obvious skills do not equal musical brilliancy (on a purely "technical" level). Of the latter, you don't find that much in Black Metal. And none of those you mentioned were that brilliant when they still played Black Metal.

You certainly won't find any in the worthless copycats you listen to. Give Nemesis Divina, Prometheus or the Thorns record a spin and if you still don't see the technical brilliance of the musicians involved go get your ears checked.

Quote:
All the bands currently popular, like the ones from Nidaros, are "ideological" and put their beliefs above their music. There is none of them who'd say they play Black Metal for the sake of writing riffs someone can bang his head to.

But then, have it your way and good luck headbanging to Black Metal.

Whether they mean it or not doesn't concern, in the end it's their music (aka the ability to write riffs that make people bang their heads to -well, in metal's case at least) which in the long run makes them good/bad and certainly not any dubious okkvlt ideology/satan-praising gimmick. Nobody would give two shits about those early '90ies records if it wasn't for their undeniable musical impact so sorry to burst your bubble but yeah, despite what you might have read in Lords of Chaos black metal is "just" music.
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da666



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think out of almost everyone on this forum, for you to be trying to tell DTBrex what BM is and isn't about is a huge fail on your part NK7, especially the comment about what he "read" in lords of chaos. You really are making yourself look like a clueless moron.
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goatmolestor



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking bets for how long til NK7 has another weeklong nwn holiday/ban
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DTBRex



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
...despite what you might have read in Lords of Chaos black metal is "just" music.


Now THAT made me LOLZ, as they used to say on FMP-board back in the days.

Sorry dude, but I can't debate with anyone who's as ignorant as you are. Laughing

(Just for the record: I've listened to the albums you praise when they were released for the first time, but none of them made me banging my head... perhaps that's not what they were recorded for in the first place, go figure...)
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ADK



Joined: 05 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
Whether they mean it or not doesn't concern, in the end it's their music (aka the ability to write riffs that make people bang their heads to -well, in metal's case at least) which in the long run makes them good/bad and certainly not any dubious okkvlt ideology/satan-praising gimmick


I basically agree with you there, but in the moment an artist releases something to the public, he also loses control about his creation.

The perception of the fans is at least as important like the intention of the artist in the first place.

Example: Even though Venom weren't serious Satan-worshippers at all, their music at the time was for a lot of fans the ultimate soundtrack of hell and influenced some of them to form bands on their own and take the whole thing to a more "serious" level.
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VATRA I SUMPOR



Joined: 19 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:

Sorry dude, but I can't debate with anyone who's as ignorant as you are. Laughing


I can't believe you tried to explain something to a troll in the first place Wink
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NK7
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DTBRex wrote:
Just for the record: I've listened to the albums you praise when they were released for the first time, but none of them made me banging my head... perhaps that's not what they were recorded for in the first place, go figure...)

I purchased Soulside mid-'91 if you're willing to play the oldest scenester game, still thats not the point you're carefully trying to dodge here: those records are revered because of their musical value exclusively, which is what made them classics in the end. Whether you headbang to it or not doesn't concern, the point is it's metal music we're talking about. Some are able to perform it properly, some (as in DTL's case) not.
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IXTAB
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 has made his opinion clear and should refrain from posting more in this thread.
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Dostojanstvenik



Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IXTAB wrote:
NK7 has made his opinion clear and should refrain from posting.


fixed!
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southern_death



Joined: 02 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dostojanstvenik wrote:
IXTAB wrote:
NK7 has made his opinion clear and should refrain from posting.


fixed!

This.

Not to keep derailing DTL thread but since it arised the topic; all that bullshit that "Black Metal died after 1997" is nonsense, a myth constructed by Conservationist and his few mates. It cannot resist any serious aesthetical analysis (nor even moral, cause' in that field today are more politically compromised bands than before).

Someone can't (seriously) say that "As a song in the harvest of grief", "Forgotten legends", "Om" or "With hearts toward none" are awful, inferior or less enjoyable than whatever just because they were made after 1997. And I'm just giving four examples of east european black metal here, but we can bring a lot more on the table (bestial/war scene, central europe BM, etc., you name it).

However, if you still think it's true, this forum is clearly useless; just close your account and lock up in your bedroom to listen the "classics" (which statu-quo is indisputable and in-arguable). That would be the coherent thing to do (if we expect coherence in those people).
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NK7
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

southern_death wrote:

Not to keep derailing DTL thread but since it arised the topic; all that bullshit that "Black Metal died after 1997" is nonsense, a myth constructed by Conservationist and his few mates. It cannot resist any serious aesthetical analysis (nor even moral, cause' in that field today are more politically compromised bands than before).

No one ever said that. What me and a few others are saying here is that the average quality of the releases dropped consistently in the last two decades and it's simply not true that musicianship and the ability to write proper songs are marginal factors in bm. Feel free to think otherwise and enjoy your new uberkvlt DTL demo if that's your (highly debatable) conception of good music.

That being said, as someone else mentioned my points (as well as Feuersturm's, Transcendence's and Xeniteia's) are clear enough and I'm done with this discussion. Peace and love.
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