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VENOM black metal inventors or...?
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Pick your choice:
Venom originators of black metal
72%
 72%  [ 72 ]
No, all start in Scandinavia
27%
 27%  [ 27 ]
Total Votes : 99

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ADK



Joined: 05 Oct 2012
Posts: 1049

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr_Belvedere wrote:
Bullshit as usual from you NK7. Just look around and wash your ears and you will see and hear that the majority of black metal bands is way more influenced by Mayhem than by Venom, be it musical or visual.
Venom may have found the name and dealt with Satan ( aswell as 1000 others had satanic lyrics at that time (just look at all the hippie bands) but Mayhem started all that what is nowadays known as black metal.


Nope, bullshit from you.

Forget all that Hippie crap, has nothing to do with METAL. There was also NS imagery in early Industrial and this has nothing to do with RAC or NSBM. Also serious headshot to everyone who thinks Venom is "Punk".

MAYHEM triggered the Norwegian SCENE, but BURZUM and DARKTHRONE were the ones who perfected that MUSICAL STYLE that is copied since the 90ies again and again. Mayhem was like Venom mainly a PHENOMENON.

Ever heard of Impaled Nazarene? Anyone who was around in the 90ies knows how HUGE their impact was outside of the UG and they were also mainly influenced by Venom.
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the wizard



Joined: 27 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Venom was never an occult rock band like the hippies ones on lsd.

They started all that stuff, like it or not, visually, musically etc and the icing on the cake, THEY found the name.

ain't enough ?
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NK7
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr_Belvedere wrote:

Bullshit as usual from you NK7. Just look around and wash your ears and you will see and hear that the majority of black metal bands is way more influenced by Mayhem than by Venom, be it musical or visual.
Venom may have found the name and dealt with Satan ( aswell as 1000 others had satanic lyrics at that time (just look at all the hippie bands) but Mayhem started all that what is nowadays known as black metal. But what to expect from a 40+ expert that never understood the music he is fighting...


nileppez wrote:
t didn't "100%" start in Scandinavia, but 90% of that so-called first wave wasn't anywhere near black metal. 80's obscure, satanic lyrcs speed/raw thrash/proto death metal =/= black metal. Especially Venom, they're NWOBHM/speed. Most of the people who get pissed when somebody says Venom isn't black metal, or people who think there was a better scene then early Norway, are fucking dickless bat shits.


15yo kids who metal-educated themselves with Lords of Chaos always know better.

Seriously, we need an anti-NWN retarded posters police squad here.
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Dalen



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, some points sound very solid, but just like Black Sabbath was the first band to introduce a sound close to what we call as "metal" to big audiences worldwide, the same way Venom was a big influence for all the early black metal bands we like. However, just like Black Sabbath is not really considered as a "metal band", you can't really call Venom a black metal one either.
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Deathcrusher



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone is interested in discussing this in a slightly more mature way, here's my two cents:

No single band can be credited with inventing an entire genre; things developed gradually. What many people here don't realise is that BM was not, in fact, defined musically in the 80s. Rather, it was a term applied to any (Heavy) Metal band with satanic lyrics and certain aesthetics. The name itself may have come from Venom's album, but it was the image that people began associating with other bands that is important. Many old school metalheads consider Mercyful Fate a BM band precisely because of the aesthetics that later bands built on. I don't disagree, although I don't enjoy Heavy Metal that much. I think the genre has its musical origins in the works of bands such as Discharge, Mötorhead, Slayer, Venom, Bathory, Celtic Frost, Sodom, Kreator on the one hand, and Heavy Metal with satanic lyrics on the other. It took a different direction in the 90s and became more well-defined, but even bands like Mayhem, who had nothing in common with the Heavy Metal sound, played with this mindset - that BM was something defined by aesthetics, rather than music itself. I there was an old interview with Euronymous about that...
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Modern black metal sucks because it's performed by lousy musicians who can barely handle their instruments, fuck "atmosphere" and give me proper metal riffs to bang my head to or just fuck off.
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satanic ritual abuse



Joined: 09 May 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tfcrtnip5s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZAwAMY0178
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ANA0g_pudM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4zhGL7H_Dw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJH--J6OOXw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzj6xM5f-Fk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXsbuKPxFL8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2UZ8rOO-Lc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk85L4v2x6E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shT09E15dLc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9iNrdjxKUk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzxnC8hDHEc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ2mUmfrDNo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gINbJt65184
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP7jq_DDq9U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIqzlQ_0ch8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l74kJ53dieo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEAGYX_8Aj0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hwWGwh6lek
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Timon



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalen wrote:
just like Black Sabbath is not really considered as a "metal band", you can't really call Venom a black metal one either.


So Black Sabbath and Venom are not "metal bands"? What the fuck?
My life needs to be rewritten.
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Weltering in Blood



Joined: 24 May 2011
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalen wrote:
Well, some points sound very solid, but just like Black Sabbath was the first band to introduce a sound close to what we call as "metal" to big audiences worldwide, the same way Venom was a big influence for all the early black metal bands we like. However, just like Black Sabbath is not really considered as a "metal band", you can't really call Venom a black metal one either.


Pretty much how I feel. A lot of people classify Mercyful Fate as Black Metal but as much as I worship the first two Fate records, it's Satanic Heavy Metal to me. Black Metal as I know it was started by Bathory on the second record. I understand where people are coming from as regards Venom. Not a big Venom fan but their huge influence on extreme Metal is undeniable.
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ADK



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I really don't understand is:

Kids, don't you all have that Metalion book now on your shelves (probably your first book so far)? You have downloaded all the PDFs of zines, correct?

So, what's the fucking problem? You are lucky you don't had to be around when it actually happened, you can READ about it now. And if you by any chance TRY to read, you will notice that "Black Metal" wasn't invented by Euro & co., but already WIDELY IN USE during in the 80ies.

Or is it a coincidence that Euro wanted to play "Black Metal" and was influenced by exactly those bands that were labelled "Black Metal" then?
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nileppez



Joined: 30 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:


15yo kids who metal-educated themselves with Lords of Chaos always know better.



Your attempt at insulting is pathetic because anybody who has seen a couple of your posts realizes you don't even outshine the average 15yo kid taken from your comparison.
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Speerhead



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holy ghost wrote:
ADK wrote:
Fuck all this revisionism.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ADK wrote:
What I really don't understand is:

Kids, don't you all have that Metalion book now on your shelves (probably your first book so far)? You have downloaded all the PDFs of zines, correct?

So, what's the fucking problem? You are lucky you don't had to be around when it actually happened, you can READ about it now. And if you by any chance TRY to read, you will notice that "Black Metal" wasn't invented by Euro & co., but already WIDELY IN USE during in the 80ies.

Or is it a coincidence that Euro wanted to play "Black Metal" and was influenced by exactly those bands that were labelled "Black Metal" then?

I gave up with these dipshits long ago, I suggest you do the same. Clearly there's no point arguing with people who listen to Balwezo Eastjizz while putting down Priest. Wish there was an ignore function implemented on this board so that I wouldn't have to go through their youtube-based "knowledge" every time I browse a thread.
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eighthplague
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, wait. Wait. So now Black Sabbath isn't a metal band? Laughing

Listen to the first riff on the song Black Sabbath on the album Black Sabbath by the band Black Sabbath. If that's not the first legitimate metal riff, I don't know what is.
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nileppez



Joined: 30 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ADK wrote:
What I really don't understand is:

Kids, don't you all have that Metalion book now on your shelves (probably your first book so far)? You have downloaded all the PDFs of zines, correct?

So, what's the fucking problem? You are lucky you don't had to be around when it actually happened, you can READ about it now. And if you by any chance TRY to read, you will notice that "Black Metal" wasn't invented by Euro & co., but already WIDELY IN USE during in the 80ies.

Or is it a coincidence that Euro wanted to play "Black Metal" and was influenced by exactly those bands that were labelled "Black Metal" then?

And 'heavy metal' was used in 60's and 70's for bands like Iron Butterfly or even Jimi Hendrix, bring me on some 70 years old to educate you kids how Black Sabbath isn't first heavy metal band.

The term 'black metal' as it is used now excludes majority of 80's bands, back even then it had place as description of satanic bands not an actual music genre, even Morbid Angel was called black metal.
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Dalen



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timon wrote:
Dalen wrote:
just like Black Sabbath is not really considered as a "metal band", you can't really call Venom a black metal one either.


So Black Sabbath and Venom are not "metal bands"? What the fuck?
My life needs to be rewritten.


Of course Venom is a metal band, but early Black Sabbath, I'm sorry but no. Black Sabbath was a huge influence for bands like Kyuss, or Colour Haze too you know, and none of them is considered as a metal band in the sense Venom, Judas Priest or Iron Maiden is. We're talking about HUGE differences in culture and aesthetic, and even though Black Sabbath was talented enough to include both "metallic" and 70's elements, they don't really belong anywhere. Proto-metal, or heavy rock, yeah, they could be called like that for sure, but I think they became more of a metal band with Dio on vocals.
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