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LABELS AND COMUNICATION
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Worthless Joke



Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haunt In The Dark wrote:
Worthless Joke wrote:

And of course you can make a better profit if you leave the bands to take the loss. That should be apparent to everyone.


And it's not "taking a loss" to me? I think there's a difference between babysitting and spoonfeeding bands and offering them a way to get more exposure?


You're retarded, right?
What does paying studio costs for a record, you're gonna be selling have to do with babysitting? Is paying the pressing plant babysitting? "If you want a real job, don't work at a vinyl pressing plant".

And no. it's not a loss to you, course you are the master of label-running and can easily turn a profit.

In a normal scene, this kind of retard could only sign substandard bands as mentioned. But look at the stuff people like. They're all over the below average stuff, so a label has no reason to sign a good band (except for their own satisfaction, should they just happen to be into good music).
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Worthless Joke



Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haunt In The Dark wrote:
Worthless Joke wrote:

And of course you can make a better profit if you leave the bands to take the loss. That should be apparent to everyone.


And it's not "taking a loss" to me? I think there's a difference between babysitting and spoonfeeding bands and offering them a way to get more exposure?


You're retarded, right?
What does paying studio costs for a record, you're gonna be selling have to do with babysitting? Is paying the pressing plant babysitting? "If you want a real job, don't work at a vinyl pressing plant".

And no. it's not a loss to you, course you are the master of label-running and can easily turn a profit.

In a normal scene, this kind of retard could only sign substandard bands as mentioned. But look at the stuff people like. They're all over the below average stuff, so a label has no reason to sign a good band (except for their own satisfaction, should they just happen to be into good music).
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IXTAB
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Joined: 15 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is in danger of getting locked/deleted.
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NK7
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IXTAB wrote:
This thread is in danger of getting locked/deleted.

While we are at it, can you delete this one? http://www.nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34365
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IXTAB
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Joined: 15 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
IXTAB wrote:
This thread is in danger of getting locked/deleted.

While we are at it, can you delete this one? http://www.nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34365


That guy just got banned for a week.
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S_Slaughter



Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 417
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know where you get the idea of self entitlement from, its just reality. Plus if you read the posts that I was replying to it was in regards to people speculating about medium to large underground labels like NWN, HHR, Osmose etc. Not mine. Ive managed businseeses so I do have some idea of what happens & the expenses involved.

I can almost certianly gaurantee you that Osmose is not running out of the spare bedroom of their apartment using their home internet & electricity. That the guys from Hells Headbangers aren't hiding in a darkened room clutching a glue stick & pair of scissors plotting about how they are going to scam some free photo copy time somewhere.
I would also be certian that labels like Hells Headbangers etc would have to make some kind of declaration if not pay tax which to me sounds preferable to the embaressment of being done for tax evasion for selling some satanic CDs & rotting in jail because you can't pay your tax debt.
Consider the postage that people pay in trades to get their releases out to other labels, anywhere from $20 - $100 a pop and a heap of these going out each week.. then once the trade package arrives if you are unlucky enough you have to pay some ape at customs duty to even claim the package.
Every label has different expenses. These are just some of the possible expenses that come out of that $10 CD that you buy from labels. These labels get to a point where they exceed the average DIY existence.

Let me make is real easy for you to summarise the original point,
profit -minus label costs / divided by hours spent = not alot of profit
Outcome = OK band has time to create music instead of replying to hundredes of emails saying 'where's my shit?". Label happy & customer happy.

This thread is originally about reply time of labels so people expect efficient professional service when they buy something but then labels apparently can't act like ordinary businesses run, somehow that is self entitlement even though you still pay $10 for product. Thats OK because I understand the world is a strange & crazy place. Plus I am more concerned that Heirophant.326.AV is apparently buying smokes somewhere for $15? In Sydney you are pressing your luck trying to find anything much below $20 these days so just think your average pack of smokes in Australia costs twice as much as some ones art.
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goatmolestor



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
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Location: brisbane

PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Choice or deal 25s can be bought for about 14-15 dollars a pack.... But on topic, if you can't be patient then bugger off to HHR, was always curious why they stocked SSP titles and after reading this thread I can see why as it would stop quite a few Moronic emails sent kramers way
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Obscurius



Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting… but bad labels communication is not the only problem… what about bad costumer communication? You know, from the moment you send an e-mail questioning about availability or shipping costs, someone on the other side of the line, labels owners, is working for you. Maybe paying the orders you make and answer the messages you get is not a bad idea too.
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MoshItUp



Joined: 12 Nov 2012
Posts: 55
Location: The City of Wind

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vega360 wrote:
....


Running a Distro = Doing Work
Most of Black Metal people = Lazy Fucks

Think the problem is pretty self explanatory.



hahahaha
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da666



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

S_Slaughter wrote:


Let me make is real easy for you to summarise the original point,
profit -minus label costs / divided by hours spent = not alot of profit




Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

It is funny how people (haunt in the darks comments mainly) here are complaining "i don't want to pay for your time spent jerking off on the internet" - yet if you said to them:
"Do a job where you spend hours replying to emails, packing orders, following up on bands, pressing plants, promoting on forums, designing layouts, designing flyers, standing in the line at the post office for ages constantly, waiting at the post office as they slowly process dozens of orders while the person processing them is giving you tude because you have brought in so many, putting up with constant retarded mails where someone changes their order 10 times then cancels it or sends you the wrong amount (on purpose), or people trying to constantly screw you down on the price as if this was a flea market, you having to repeat yourself 10 000 times because people can't read your site etc. etc. but you are not going to get paid for those hours of work and this is after you have worked a 5 day week of full time work with your other job that keeps you afloat and then read some little dickdowner bitching and moaning on forums about the work you are doing", you reckon they'd say "hell yeah ill do it, sounds like an awesome job"?
Fuck off. They'd scoff at the prospect and continue being arrogant tight arses.
People need to wake up to themselves.
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iron tyrant



Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

da666 wrote:


Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

It is funny how people (haunt in the darks comments mainly) here are complaining "i don't want to pay for your time spent jerking off on the internet" - yet if you said to them:
"Do a job where you spend hours replying to emails, packing orders, following up on bands, pressing plants, promoting on forums, designing layouts, designing flyers, standing in the line at the post office for ages constantly, waiting at the post office as they slowly process dozens of orders while the person processing them is giving you tude because you have brought in so many, putting up with constant retarded mails where someone changes their order 10 times then cancels it or sends you the wrong amount (on purpose), or people trying to constantly screw you down on the price as if this was a flea market, you having to repeat yourself 10 000 times because people can't read your site etc. etc. but you are not going to get paid for those hours of work and this is after you have worked a 5 day week of full time work with your other job that keeps you afloat and then read some little dickdowner bitching and moaning on forums about the work you are doing", you reckon they'd say "hell yeah ill do it, sounds like an awesome job"?
Fuck off. They'd scoff at the prospect and continue being arrogant tight arses.
People need to wake up to themselves.


All of the above is true, especially the part on people trying to get a discount on 1/2 tapes.
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astralvesl



Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 1015

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

S_Slaughter said it pretty well I think. A lot of people just want to run a distro and don't really take the time to think about what that means or what it really takes. The problem is compounded when those people also happen to be terrible at things relating to business. In all reality it really isn't that hard to run a small distro on the side but when you start getting to the point of something like HHR or NWN it becomes quite a great deal more time consuming and laborious pretty quickly. Also of course a label like HHR pays taxes, they're probably an LLC or run under one. It takes about a week to create an LLC if you haven't done it before plus $50 depending on what state you're in so there isn't any excuse for not doing it given the benefits and potential issues avoided.
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Haunt In The Dark



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 917
Location: Trve De Baal

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

S_Slaughter wrote:
. These labels get to a point where they exceed the average DIY existence.


Yes, but these are businesses and therefore have to deal with the shit that goes with running a business.. I'm talking about labels that aren't businesses but hobbies yet the people behind them want their hobby to be considered as a job. That's what I'm not ok with. It's also quite ill-advised to think you can make it by running a black-metal label.

Also, you can call me a naive idealist (or a stupid French faggot, I don't care) but I'm generally not interested in bands that consider their music as a business. I don't believe in the sincerity of your endeavour if it's oriented by money considerations. That's not what extreme metal is about to me. It's also not what extreme metal was for the people who created it.

da666 wrote:
S_Slaughter wrote:


Let me make is real easy for you to summarise the original point,
profit -minus label costs / divided by hours spent = not alot of profit




Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

It is funny how people (haunt in the darks comments mainly) here are complaining "i don't want to pay for your time spent jerking off on the internet" - yet if you said to them:
"Do a job where you spend hours replying to emails, packing orders, following up on bands, pressing plants, promoting on forums, designing layouts, designing flyers, standing in the line at the post office for ages constantly, waiting at the post office as they slowly process dozens of orders while the person processing them is giving you tude because you have brought in so many, putting up with constant retarded mails where someone changes their order 10 times then cancels it or sends you the wrong amount (on purpose), or people trying to constantly screw you down on the price as if this was a flea market, you having to repeat yourself 10 000 times because people can't read your site etc. etc. but you are not going to get paid for those hours of work and this is after you have worked a 5 day week of full time work with your other job that keeps you afloat and then read some little dickdowner bitching and moaning on forums about the work you are doing", you reckon they'd say "hell yeah ill do it, sounds like an awesome job"?
Fuck off. They'd scoff at the prospect and continue being arrogant tight arses.
People need to wake up to themselves.


I hate to go to such lengths to justify my point and making it look like another pissing contest but the "little dickdowner" you're talking to is someone who sold several hundreds of self-released records and tapes (the tapes were available for donations, mind you), spent countless hours making the artwork for them (that includes covers, inserts, screenprinting, printing, cutting, assembling everything, etc...), makes hundreds of not-halfassed packages (which all include a personal handwritten note) every year and goes to the post office several times a week, who makes websites and updates them, who deals with dumb emails on the regular, sets up trades, etc..., who makes a fanzine available for free, who made real flyers or promotion online, who plays in several bands, helps putting on gigs, etc... and I never asked for any money for most of this (yet made some) nor never considered any of it as "work" either because I consider it as a hobby, a PASSION instead, not like a fucking job that I despise.

You guys all make it sound like it's a fucking burden to run a label. It's not. You chose to do it in your free time as a hobby and you're responsible for what it turned into. I'm not, and nobody ever forced you to run it in the first place. If it becomes a chore, stop right away. If it becomes a business, accept being called out for trying to take advantage of what claimed to be the most anti-commercial music in the first place. It's ok to get some reward for your efforts (I'm using this term deliberately) but you should not be asking for it, and you also shouldn't be ripping off the people who want to offer you their support by making them pay outrageous prices for whatever you do.
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Fallen_Empire
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run my label in a 'business minded' fashion because otherwise it would fail, but I don't for a second consider it to be a burden or anything like that. Sure, it can be a little overwhelming sometimes as a one man operation, but in the future I hope to have some competent and equally interested people helping out on a regular basis.

However, at the core it is a passion project. It is something that I do with a lot of my free time and I would certainly not spend this amount of time and effort on mundane tasks if it wasn't something I truly cared about.

Even though I operate with a 'business mind', that does not mean I am ripping anybody off. I'm fairly certain that almost all of the releases that I import are CHEAPER to buy directly from me after shipping is factored (if you are in the USA, which is my primary customer base) as opposed to the labels that released them overseas. This is my number one priority. It is the reason my label/distro exists in the first place, because I too am a consumer and got fed up with paying tons of money on postage every time I wanted a new LP or tape from overseas. There is a big difference between making a profit from what you do and extorting people. A large part of the "success" I've had stems from saving people money over the alternative.

(This wasn't a direct response to Haunt's post, just a general response to some points raised)
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Azmoth



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 861

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haunt In The Dark wrote:
I hate to go to such lengths to justify my point and making it look like another pissing contest but the "little dickdowner" you're talking to is someone who sold several hundreds of self-released records and tapes (the tapes were available for donations, mind you), spent countless hours making the artwork for them (that includes covers, inserts, screenprinting, printing, cutting, assembling everything, etc...), makes hundreds of not-halfassed packages (which all include a personal handwritten note) every year and goes to the post office several times a week, who makes websites and updates them, who deals with dumb emails on the regular, sets up trades, etc..., who makes a fanzine available for free, who made real flyers or promotion online, who plays in several bands, helps putting on gigs, etc... and I never asked for any money for most of this (yet made some) nor never considered any of it as "work" either because I consider it as a hobby, a PASSION instead, not like a fucking job that I despise.

You guys all make it sound like it's a fucking burden to run a label. It's not. You chose to do it in your free time as a hobby and you're responsible for what it turned into. I'm not, and nobody ever forced you to run it in the first place. If it becomes a chore, stop right away. If it becomes a business, accept being called out for trying to take advantage of what claimed to be the most anti-commercial music in the first place. It's ok to get some reward for your efforts (I'm using this term deliberately) but you should not be asking for it, and you also shouldn't be ripping off the people who want to offer you their support by making them pay outrageous prices for whatever you do.


I really wonder what label/bands/zine you (used to) run, as I can't find it. I think you should give the name now, there's no shame about it.
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