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Bm generation perspectives
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Zone



Joined: 07 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Bm generation perspectives Reply with quote

Bathory, Hellhammer, Mercyful Fate, and Celtic frost are traditionally in the music referred to as the "1st wave" of black metal. With the Norwegian, Hellenic, and other regional scenes establishing the 2nd wave of the music- what then qualifies in time period/bands the third and fourth wave? Are we that far along in the music to determine what bands started what, or do you think the 3rd/4th generations are a blur as the music has largely taken different creative directions? What are the bands that ushered in a newer sound into the music that could define a "3rd wave" and what are the characteristics of the bands that form an emerging 4th?
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Conservationist
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Bm generation perspectives Reply with quote

Zone wrote:
Bathory, Hellhammer, Mercyful Fate, and Celtic frost are traditionally in the music referred to as the "1st wave" of black metal. With the Norwegian, Hellenic, and other regional scenes establishing the 2nd wave of the music- what then qualifies in time period/bands the third and fourth wave? Are we that far along in the music to determine what bands started what, or do you think the 3rd/4th generations are a blur as the music has largely taken different creative directions? What are the bands that ushered in a newer sound into the music that could define a "3rd wave" and what are the characteristics of the bands that form an emerging 4th?


After the Norwegians faltered, it was unmitigated shit anyway.
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ADB



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a 3rd and 4th wave? I'd just say there's 80's, early 90's Norwegian, and everything else. Kind of silly calling something a wave when it's not a wave, just a different time period with no exceptional rise in the amount of music.
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multicide



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a big thread about this, not sure if it still exists. According to most, third began in the mid 90's/after the Norwegian explosion with bands doing the medieval/war/Darkclone/Norsecore thing. The fourth (which I always considered was the third) was with bands like Katharsis, Horna, Warlogue, Baptism, ect. No idea where we're at now.
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Madhukapala



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

multicide wrote:
There was a big thread about this, not sure if it still exists. According to most, third began in the mid 90's/after the Norwegian explosion with bands doing the medieval/war/Darkclone/Norsecore thing. The fourth (which I always considered was the third) was with bands like Katharsis, Horna, Warlogue, Baptism, ect. No idea where we're at now.


I think that's pretty accurate.

I always thought of '3rd wave' black metal as representing the crystallization of black metal as a set of musical forms first and foremost, i.e, "black metal = high pitched tremelo picking and simple power chord progressions + Quorthon vocals". First and second wave seem to have been primarily content oriented.
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Dalen



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm quite curious to read Conservationist's opinion on this, I understand why lots of you guys throw shit at him, but I think he's one of the few people here who take some time to comprehend some basic things about music. Imo, black metal is the only subgenre in metal music that keeps on evolving, presenting different directions, styles and identities for bands, keeping things a bit interesting that way. Some of em preserved the aesthetic, some others not really, so in fact there is no such thing as a 'new wave', musicians just became better and better with their instruments.
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asmael LeBouc



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th wave would be later DsO, Negative Plane and stuff like last 2 Aosoth IMO

Strong spiritual/religious atmosphere with progressive elements.

TBH it is recent so hard and subjective to delineate.

Same for all the "black/death" bands: are they a genuine new subgenre or just a trend? Just a branch?
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Ascetic
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Re: Bm generation perspectives Reply with quote

...

Last edited by Ascetic on Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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pastafarian



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st - Bathory, sarcofago
2nd - darkthrone, mayhem, burzum, emperor etc.
3rd - urgehal, taake, 1349 etc
4th - deafheaven? Laughing
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Mz412



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:49 am    Post subject: Re: Bm generation perspectives Reply with quote

Zone wrote:
Bathory, Hellhammer, Mercyful Fate, and Celtic frost are traditionally in the music referred to as the "1st wave" of black metal. With the Norwegian, Hellenic, and other regional scenes establishing the 2nd wave of the music- what then qualifies in time period/bands the third and fourth wave? Are we that far along in the music to determine what bands started what, or do you think the 3rd/4th generations are a blur as the music has largely taken different creative directions? What are the bands that ushered in a newer sound into the music that could define a "3rd wave" and what are the characteristics of the bands that form an emerging 4th?


Bathory ect. where already the Second Wave of Black Metal, since Venom, Sodom, Possessed, Slayer, Holy Moses are refered to be the First Wave of Black Metal.
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Hektor
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalen wrote:
black metal is the only subgenre in metal music that keeps on evolving, presenting different directions, styles and identities for bands, keeping things a bit interesting that way. Some of em preserved the aesthetic, some others not really, so in fact there is no such thing as a 'new wave', musicians just became better and better with their instruments.

Couldn't disagree more. Black metal musicians are far worse now than they were in the golden age of the genre, go find one guitarist who is half as skilled as the duo from Emperor or a drummer who can match Frost-there's none. Besides, the new "styles" are not new at all. With the exception of DSO (who are complete scheisse anyway) and a couple of others everything else is basically a rip off of things done much better in the past.

If there is one genre that has been complete crap for the past decade and which we definitely don't need further contributions from, thats black metal.
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Stalinorgel
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:58 am    Post subject: Re: Bm generation perspectives Reply with quote

Mz412 wrote:
Bathory ect. where already the Second Wave of Black Metal, since Venom, Sodom, Possessed, Slayer, Holy Moses are refered to be the First Wave of Black Metal.


That makes no sense to me: Bathory's debut was 1984, same as Sodom - "In the Sign of Evil". And Possessed released "Seven Churches" in 1985.

And never have I heard Holy Moses labelled with the BM-tag.
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Mz412



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Bm generation perspectives Reply with quote

Stalinorgel wrote:
Mz412 wrote:
Bathory ect. where already the Second Wave of Black Metal, since Venom, Sodom, Possessed, Slayer, Holy Moses are refered to be the First Wave of Black Metal.


That makes no sense to me: Bathory's debut was 1984, same as Sodom - "In the Sign of Evil". And Possessed released "Seven Churches" in 1985.

And never have I heard Holy Moses labelled with the BM-tag.


Holy Moses have had a Demo Tape called "Black Metal Masters" in 1981 and some called it then Black Metal, since most Black metal where actually Thrash Effectively.

I'm now not sure about your Question regards Sodom. In the Time before Internet the Bands have had a Funny Creation. It where called "Demo Tape". And mostly they already played some Times before they recordet their Demo Tapes. Unbelievable i know. But Imagine a world without Apps, Downloads and such...

But fun aside and after all, its Discussionable as all about the Timelines. Some People want to see Black Metal as Radical Spot, so they claim only Venom as Inspiration, others uses every 1-2 Day existing Thrash Band to be Black Metal.
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EternalNight



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say that the so called third wave started 1994 When De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas was released. So many bands were formed under the influence of that album during the years 1994-1995. But i think It is easier tonlook at it as movements. We have the more orthodox part from Sweden(Watain,Funeral Mist,Malign,Ofermod) Which is very connected to Norma Evangelium Diaboli. The genre Depressive Suicidal Black Metal started to appear around that time with Shining.

Anyone that agrees!
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EternalNight



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say that the so called third wave started 1994 When De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas was released. So many bands were formed under the influence of that album during the years 1994-1995. But i think It is easier tonlook at it as movements. We have the more orthodox part from Sweden(Watain,Funeral Mist,Malign,Ofermod) Which is very connected to Norma Evangelium Diaboli. The genre Depressive Suicidal Black Metal started to appear around that time with Shining.

Anyone that agrees!
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