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Metal Romanticism
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Conservationist
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject: Metal Romanticism Reply with quote

See if any of this sounds familiar:

Quote:

Romanticism is a complex artistic, literary, and intellectual movement that originated in the second half of the 18th century in Western Europe, and gained strength during the Industrial Revolution.[1] It was partly a revolt against aristocratic social and political norms of the Age of Enlightenment and a reaction against the scientific rationalization of nature,[2] and was embodied most strongly in the visual arts, music, and literature.

The movement stressed strong emotion as a source of aesthetic experience, placing new emphasis on such emotions as trepidation, horror and awe—especially that which is experienced in confronting the sublimity of untamed nature and its picturesque qualities, both new aesthetic categories. It elevated folk art and custom to something noble, and argued for a "natural" epistemology of human activities as conditioned by nature in the form of language, custom and usage.

...

Our modern sense of a romantic character may be expressed in Byronic ideals of a gifted, perhaps misunderstood loner, creatively following the dictates of his inspiration rather than the mores of contemporary society.

...

Furthermore, several romantic authors, such as Edgar Allan Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne, based their writings on the supernatural/occult and human psychology.


....

One of Romanticism's key ideas and most enduring legacies is the assertion of nationalism, which became a central theme of Romantic art and political philosophy. From the earliest parts of the movement, with their focus on development of national languages and folklore, and the importance of local customs and traditions, to the movements which would redraw the map of Europe and lead to calls for self-determination of nationalities, nationalism was one of the key vehicles of Romanticism, its role, expression and meaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism


This is not the best source, but it gives you a good basic idea of the tenets of Romanticism.

In metal, I see these:

* The sublime
* Horror
* Focus on the ancient
* Ruins
* Dissident loners
* Occultism
* Nationalism and folklore-worship


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Dodens Grav



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing anybody ever disagreed with you about is your claim that Romanticism is inherent in metal, not that it's overly abundant.
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In Solitude



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don't see how any educated person couldn't see Metal as Romantic. As soon as I learned about that period in school, I instantly connected Metal to its ideals.
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dimensional



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a lot of metal that has absolutely nothing to do with it, though. That is why I too do not believe that it possesses those qualities inherently, but rather is a common thematic.
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In Solitude



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dimensional wrote:
There's a lot of metal that has absolutely nothing to do with it, though. That is why I too do not believe that it possesses those qualities inherently, but rather is a common thematic.


Can you name some examples? I'm not disagreeing, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
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dimensional



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there's the huge abundance of socio-political thrash. Certainly I don't need to name drop very many of those as there are quite a lot. There's also quite a few bands that focus on othere themes such as clinical pathology, dystopian realism, and modernism. Romanticism is a big part of metal for sure, but in no way is it a necessary component.
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In Solitude



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dimensional wrote:
Well, there's the huge abundance of socio-political thrash. Certainly I don't need to name drop very many of those as there are quite a lot. There's also quite a few bands that focus on othere themes such as clinical pathology, dystopian realism, and modernism. Romanticism is a big part of metal for sure, but in no way is it a necessary component.


Fair enough. I agree there.

I am very attracted to the Romantic aspect, hence many of the lyrical/musical themes you mentioned don't really interest me. I find most of those bands boring.
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Sacrilegio



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that there is quite a lot of romanticism in black metal as well as folk/viking, but that is only looking at the music in an objective sense- looking at the lyrics, notwithstanding perceivable aspects like instrument choice, vocal choice, artwork, image and so on.

I believe that the majority of romanticism actually comes from the listeners. They perpetuate this whole romanticism, usually in regards to Scandinavia.

The most obvious example of a romantic band for me would be Frostmoon from Norway.

If anyone is interested I can elaborate on any of the points I made- I just am a bit lackadaisical at the moment.
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Zombie Dance



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the first concept of romanticism was brought by Victor Hugo in the intro of his "Cromwell". Considered as the manifest of this genre, this intro says that the writer should now try to associate the beauty and the ugly to make a new form of purity. In litterature, associate the tragedy to the comedy.
This concept fits to a lot of black metal music, and mostly from 90's.

"Les Chants de Maldoror" from Lautréamont (AKA Isidore Ducasse), masterpiece of romanticism, is probably more blasphemous and dark than anything that could ever be written in Black metal, or wherever else.
If you understand french, it's really worth it.

I guess that Celestia represents the best the romantic concept, and i'm pretty sure that Noktu read a lot of french classic like Hugo, Musset or Nerval, you can feel that in the lyrics.

eitherway, Romantic hero always considers the nature as the reflect of his feelings, try "Frankenstein" (Mary Shelley) or "Les rêveries du promeneur solitaire"(Jean-Jacques Rousseau).
It could fit to paganist/nature worshippers... Anyway Romanticism is a way more rich in litterature than in black metal...
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pataphysicien



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what Dødens Grav said.

In Solitude wrote:
dimensional wrote:
Well, there's the huge abundance of socio-political thrash. Certainly I don't need to name drop very many of those as there are quite a lot. There's also quite a few bands that focus on othere themes such as clinical pathology, dystopian realism, and modernism. Romanticism is a big part of metal for sure, but in no way is it a necessary component.


Fair enough. I agree there.

I am very attracted to the Romantic aspect, hence many of the lyrical/musical themes you mentioned don't really interest me. I find most of those bands boring.


I can understand that, I used to be quite a bit like that myself. nowadays I find myself enjoying all kinds of lyrical themes, and I'm actually often unsatisfied by precisely those 'removed from the world of everyday practice, politics and real suffering'-themes that could here fit under the umbrella of 'romantic' themes. bands like Priest, Sabbath or Vitus showcase both: a fascination with 'romantic' themes as well as well as a concern with the nitty-gritty politics of the present, the details of the human condition, injustice and suffering. responsibility here and now and a concern with the practicalities of progressive politics is not a classic concern of the romantics. more often than not the 'romantic' currents in Metal strike me as a kind of escapism.

I still wonder then why someone would try to argue for Metal being 'inherently' romantic. but not only that: in combination with the claims that 'most of the best metal bands were attached to the far right and espoused nationalism' I start wondering again why somebody would selectively highlight these things and argue that Heavy Metal is (or should be?) about them. smells dubious.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see any Romanticism in Splatter/Gore-lyrics.
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Necrosis



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wraith wrote:
I don't see any Romanticism in Splatter/Gore-lyrics.


What is more romantic than a cock in a decapitated head?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wraith wrote:
I don't see any Romanticism in Splatter/Gore-lyrics.


har, har, har!!!!! Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodens Grav wrote:
The only thing anybody ever disagreed with you about is your claim that Romanticism is inherent in metal, not that it's overly abundant.


Well, let's see... Black Sabbath and the NWOBHM classics all featured it.

Most if not all of the classic death metal featured it.

Speed metal and thrash were more political, but "Escape" from Metallica and all of the Slayer stuff is clearly Romantic.

So yes, I think it's a tenet of the genre, just as much as the heavy riff or the heavy subject matter.

In fact, it's that heavy subject matter that is the link, I think.
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pataphysicien



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a lot of metal bands have themes that deal with religion.

in fact most, if not all black metal bands feature it.

and all christian bands too.

metal is inherently religious.

religion is something many people in the world have heard of at one time or another in their lives, I think that is the link.

derp.
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Then, AS you Sweden, Too?
Compared to Finland,
your Country 90's death metal is very stupid & poor sound
Do you know why? Ask Your KING Dan Swanö .

Do you know ?
because of stupid like you. Died My old friend Jon Nödtveidt.
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