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Conservationist
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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 Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| Esoteric wrote: | | As someone already said, black metal and revolution do not go hand in hand. Black metal as music is used as an outlet for venting and is used in order to avoid confrontation, responsibility of everyday life, and conflict in general by fantasy and gaming nerds. |
I disagree.
Black metal is art.
Like other art, it changes opinions and that influences what we do in life, including politically.
It's no different than reading a novel (say, Naked Lunch by W.S. Burroughs) and learning from it, and having opinions change as a result.
Just so you know: this argument was old on the intertards in 1994.
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Esoteric
Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Conservationist wrote: | | Esoteric wrote: | | As someone already said, black metal and revolution do not go hand in hand. Black metal as music is used as an outlet for venting and is used in order to avoid confrontation, responsibility of everyday life, and conflict in general by fantasy and gaming nerds. |
I disagree.
Black metal is art.
Like other art, it changes opinions and that influences what we do in life, including politically.
It's no different than reading a novel (say, Naked Lunch by W.S. Burroughs) and learning from it, and having opinions change as a result.
Just so you know: this argument was old on the intertards in 1994. |
The arguement is old, but it's everchanging and evolving into all new lows. If anything, the genre is less credible today and totally not serious at all (obviously). Anyone who bases their life on a style of music, especially one that isn't serious with half-assed idealogies thought up by drunkards and fantasy nerds is pretty stupid.
Sure black metal is art, so are cheesy horror movies, but just because I view Dead Alive a couple times isn't going to change any opinions or a world view in the slightest aside from "Oh shit that priest is Kung-Fuing all these fucking zombies". General society would all rather emulate their idols who happen to be musicians in these bands who totally don't practice what they preach, so it ends there.
This project is a waste of time. |
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Wraith
Joined: 02 Aug 2009
Posts: 2524
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| There's too much talking about music and too many talking musicians anyway. |
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Conservationist
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Esoteric wrote: | | If anything, the genre is less credible today and totally not serious at all (obviously). |
Either that or the new bands mostly just suck, and we shouldn't define the genre by them just because they happen to be here now.
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Esoteric
Joined: 28 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Conservationist wrote: | | Esoteric wrote: | | If anything, the genre is less credible today and totally not serious at all (obviously). |
Either that or the new bands mostly just suck, and we shouldn't define the genre by them just because they happen to be here now. |
True enough, there just happens to be the problem of old, respectable, good bands that are now out today claiming they were never serious, they were foolish, it was a gimmick, etc. which negates any sincerity we may have thought was once there. Of course the music is still good, but now it's just that, music and nothing else.
Let's not forget the people you're trying to geto to think though. They're all about the new bands who suck and will generalize the entire genre as what they see today, not giving good material a listen or associating it in the same light as the new bands. |
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Conservationist
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Esoteric wrote: | | True enough, there just happens to be the problem of old, respectable, good bands that are now out today claiming they were never serious, they were foolish, it was a gimmick, etc. which negates any sincerity we may have thought was once there. |
True, but that happens in every generation as part of the aging process. Your new neighbor is a Christian, or your wife is -- do you want to Holocaust them? Probably not, so claim it's a joke. Also, if you want to get bigger as a band, it doesn't help to have any strong beliefs. People want fun, light, distracting, etc. -- not heavy art.* So you dumb it down and make the cash so you can keep being a musician. It happened with death metal and speed metal too.
* On the flipside, there are people who seek out the stuff that looks "heavy art" for reasons of their own, but they're actually a minority in my experience.
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War Moon
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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It makes sense why this musical genre is populated by so many angsty, self loathing, confused, morons.
Wow, a bunch of moronic, mongoloid, retards whining about tragic decline of black metal "since *insert mid-nineties date* on the internet, I've never seen that before.
It is always funny to see people whining about this GENRE of music as if it was SO great at one point. What does it all mean!? What does it all stand for??! EXISTENTIAL HUMAN CRISIS!
Hahaha, I find it funny Conservationist attempted to make it sound like Black Metal has ties to Romanticist Sturm und Drang type artistic movements when hardly anyone even understands let alone cares what this music is about beyond simple entertainment; which sounds like a perception often shared by the Baby Boomer generation, along with all the behavior consisting of whining, the sense of entitlement, materialism, excessive free time to waste on worthless activities like the internet and self worship, it seems like most who follow black metal in any sense of the word are the antithesis to anything of artistic merit or value. Nothing more then byproducts of the modern, instant gratification, me-me-me zeitgeist. It is really no surprise that to most people Black Metal is nothing more then a just another underground musical genre with a lot of posturing and theatrics. And lets face it, that is all most people involved in Black Metal are interested in, thus that is why it is always emulated while music/aesthetics are usually irrelevant although most people won't admit it.
But go back to debating how "worthless" everything is and how important your opinions are while you still listen to this "dead" genre. If you look beneath the surface, like with most matters, it isn't very hard to see what truly lies beyond. |
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Conservationist
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| War Moon wrote: | | hardly anyone even understands let alone cares what this music is about beyond simple entertainment |
The majority treats everything this way. Look at your local classical CD shop -- "Beethoven for Pleasant Dreams and High-SAT-Scoring Babies" is outselling Celibdache. So what?
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In Solitude
Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Black Metal Revolution - A book project |
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| Blood and Thunder wrote: | I've been working through some ideas that I want to compile into a book and think I have come up with something interesting and achievable.
I'm interested to hear people's thoughts, and if you like the idea, please spread the word to people you know in bands.
Obviously there are a few interview subjects that wouldn't be able to participate for obvious reasons, though I don't think that needs to lessen the impact of this project.
Site address: www.blackmetalrevolution.com
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Nevermind all the bullshit here; my question is, did you change the name of the book?
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Blood and Thunder
Joined: 02 May 2008
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Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| DSS wrote: | The idea is laughable! Seriously, "Black Metal" and "Revolution" should not be used together in one sentence. What exactly was achieved through Black Metal? A few churches burned down, a couple people got killed, some commited suicide, some went to jail and the majority of the people in most bands are weak alcoholics and drug addicts. By 1995 the whole idea of Black Metal became a joke and a money making machine. Nothing will ever be accomplished through Black Metal.
I read the "mission" statement on the website and I understand that the idea is based on albums which influenced. The problem I see is that the majority of the bands which I see on the page; Venom, Bathory, Celtic Frost, etc. admitted that they were never serious about their beliefs. Venom was a joke. Bathory knew nothing about Satanism, etc. Then you have Mayhem and the truth about Euronymous was exposed, most people from the old Norwegian scene think he was wimp.
Simply put, what other useful info can be added that was not included in "Lord of chaos" for example? Numerous documentary films have been made as well in the past few years about BM and everything has already been said and repeated over and over again. |
Thanks for your input, this was the kind of thing I was looking for. The term Revolution was more a play on the revolution of records - ie: they go around in a circular motion, as well as the concept of 'evolution' ie: how one band has influenced another. That you didn't really get that from the site suggests I haven't made it clear enough.
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Blood and Thunder
Joined: 02 May 2008
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Location: Melbourne
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Black Metal Revolution - A book project |
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| In Solitude wrote: | | Blood and Thunder wrote: | I've been working through some ideas that I want to compile into a book and think I have come up with something interesting and achievable.
I'm interested to hear people's thoughts, and if you like the idea, please spread the word to people you know in bands.
Obviously there are a few interview subjects that wouldn't be able to participate for obvious reasons, though I don't think that needs to lessen the impact of this project.
Site address: www.blackmetalrevolution.com
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Nevermind all the bullshit here; my question is, did you change the name of the book? |
It's actually a totally different project. I really had a hard time getting people to respond to the Stench Of BM idea. I don't know if it was apathy or an inability to articulate one's philosophy on the music etc that was the problem, but I have done a band, done a zine, don't want to do a label yet still feel the need for a creative outlet. I think publishing, should i find the right channel is where I want to go. Despite that, I did get some excellent insights.
To put it plainly, the idea for BMR is to interview a slew of bands about those records they found most inspiration in. BM is one genre where people don't pretend they weren't influenced by their predecessors. Once the most interesting parts of those interviews were compiled, then I want to interview the artists who made those records - those still living at any rate. It is intended for the most part to be a musical odyssey, despite finding the philosophical aspect of the music to be interesting also. As mentioned before I guess some of the message is a little distorted, so I should try and clarify that.
it's true there are many documentaries and the like about BM etc. This project will in no way cover old territory. It is no Lords Of Chaos II. I'm surprised people got that from the site, but again need to consider that that message was extrapolated. Where I am concerned, this project is the complete opposite. Further to the point, it should demystify some of the legacy surrounding some of these records. Who knows though? It will prove to be a lengthy pursuit...
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Morbid69
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
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Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:26 am Post subject: |
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I definitely agree that early black metal encouraged alot of young people to think about things their peers would otherwise never care about, which in any serious person would stay with them for a long time.
I loosely believe that people who miss out on these kinds of feelings or experiences during adolescence only worsen with age and end up rather boring and unfulfilled.
So in a sense, I can see where the romanticism idea comes from. |
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DSS
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 1964
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Blood and Thunder wrote: |
Thanks for your input, this was the kind of thing I was looking for. The term Revolution was more a play on the revolution of records - ie: they go around in a circular motion, as well as the concept of 'evolution' ie: how one band has influenced another. That you didn't really get that from the site suggests I haven't made it clear enough. |
It's good that you don't get offended like most people. Besides this is a message board and it shouldn't be taken too seriously.
When it comes to the musical side of BM I don't see it as "evolution" in any way. The bands of the so called 'second wave' which appeared in the early '90s were influenced by the bands from the '80s. They claimed that BM should sound primitive and dirty just like the old bands used to play it. What they didn't realize is that those bands (Venom, Sodom and Bathory for example) lacked the studio funds to work on a high quality album and this is what those bands wished for the most. The early albums of those bands sound primitive because they couldn't afford to produce a better sounding album, not because it was done on purpose. Some of those bands are actually ashamed of their early work and they don't understand how anyone can like the music.
The 'second wave' bands worshipped the early albums of the already mentioned bands and consider the later albums to be sell-outs because of the clear production, etc., etc. And look what happened to those 'second wave' bands, they followed the same path as their idols. The more albums they sold and earned more money their sound became more commercial with each album. Very few bands remained "true" to their roots.
It's a vicious circle. The only difference with the 'second wave' bands was their actions. They actually put their lyrics to action. As for the musical side I think everything has been already done. Perhaps there's going to be a group of people who will take their actions a step further. Maybe it will be mass murder or bombings of churches full of people.
Your book or the idea of it will sell. I don't think people my age will buy it (I'm 34) but the new comers between the ages of 14 and 20 will be wetting their pants. |
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Conservationist
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Black Metal Revolution - A book project |
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| Blood and Thunder wrote: | | it's true there are many documentaries and the like about BM etc. |
All of them get into the how, few get into the why.
Until the Light Takes Us gets into the why, but basically only for a handful of dudes.
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probert
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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id call it Black Metal RPM or Black Metal with a subtitle of "Revolutions Per Minute"
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