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Question about turntables
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blodhemn9



Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 4981
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: Question about turntables Reply with quote

Im not asking for recomendations like the other thread........

My question is this: How much of the sound quality is the record player itself, and how much is the stereo/speakers??

I've got a pretty cheap (under $100) RCA one that I've had for many years. I have it hooked up through the red/white composite cables into my Sony 5.1 stereo system. I think it sounds great, but reading about all these expensive units makes me wonder what I'm missing out on.

I've kinda always assumed that its not so much the record player itself that determines the sound, but the speakers. Similar to how a shitty cd player sounds just fine if hooked up to a nice stereo system. I assume I'm probably wrong about this though Laughing

So, eventhough I have a very nice 5.1 system (and the records sound great to my ears), am I missing out on noticibly superior sound by having a low end turntable??
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ZummahT



Joined: 04 Aug 2009
Posts: 695
Location: NYFC

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have a U$100 Numark record player, and I do the same thing, plug it into the stereo, and the sound is great!
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peterott



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: Question about turntables Reply with quote

blodhemn9 wrote:
Im not asking for recomendations like the other thread........

My question is this: How much of the sound quality is the record player itself, and how much is the stereo/speakers??


You should rather add: how much is the record player itself, how much is the used system/needle, how much is the stereo/speakers.

I'd say 1/3, 1/3+, 1/3-.


EDIT: the player itself basically only is responsible for the rotating. Sometimes it works better sometimes not. Sometimes it has a perfect subchassis, which attenuates everything even when you jump besides the player with your feet up and down, sometimes not. Plus it delivers the output signal to the amplifier. Sometimes amplified, sometimes not so you need a pre-amplifier. That has also effect.

Also the construction of the tone arm you have to think of. A wrong/cheap construction can cause problems during playing with mechanical instability or other effects. Sometimes it doesn't.

Try and error, that's how you will find your top player, top system, top amp/speakers.
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blodhemn9



Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Question about turntables Reply with quote

peterott wrote:
blodhemn9 wrote:
Im not asking for recomendations like the other thread........

My question is this: How much of the sound quality is the record player itself, and how much is the stereo/speakers??


You should rather add: how much is the record player itself, how much is the used system/needle, how much is the stereo/speakers.

I'd say 1/3, 1/3+, 1/3-.


EDIT: the player itself basically only is responsible for the rotating. Sometimes it works better sometimes not. Sometimes it has a perfect subchassis, which attenuates everything even when you jump besides the player with your feet up and down, sometimes not. Plus it delivers the output signal to the amplifier. Sometimes amplified, sometimes not so you need a pre-amplifier. That has also effect.

Also the construction of the tone arm you have to think of. A wrong/cheap construction can cause problems during playing with mechanical instability or other effects. Sometimes it doesn't.

Try and error, that's how you will find your top player, top system, top amp/speakers.


Thanks for the information. The player is very sensitive to stomping/bumping... I have wood floors so that makes it worse...no carpet to absorb the shock.

Im not sure if I can even get a better needle for it or not. I think it only has one that is made for it based on what I've seen. Everytime I look up needles for my particular machine, it only comes up with the same one that I have.

Like I said, it sounds good to me, but I was just wondering if there is a HUGE difference in a more expensive machine. I don't have much extra money to through around doing 'trail and error', so I guess I will stick with what I've got for now!
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peterott



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Question about turntables Reply with quote

blodhemn9 wrote:
Thanks for the information. The player is very sensitive to stomping/bumping... I have wood floors so that makes it worse...no carpet to absorb the shock.


then it's probably a cheap one without a subchassis.

Old mid-end/high-end players have a wooden/plasic frame(?) (German word "Zarge") and then a subchassis with the record player that is mounted only with springs to the frame. This absorbs a shitload of "stomping" around the player. My first Phillips LP-player was one of this kind where subchassis and frame were one. Horrible, even when walking by on socks. Though the system/needle was ok and the sound was good. But no mechanism to slower the needle when it falls down on the vinyl to start the playing. Rationalised away to get it cheaper. Like most vinyl players in the early 90es a lot of features were gone. And plastic shit everwhere.
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GHOAT



Joined: 26 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a $500 Musichall Turntable, but I have it running into a phono preamp, which converts the phono signal into a line signal. This then runs into an Aiwa Stereo system. The stereo itself is nothing great, but sound-wise, it is fine. The clarity is awesome, and 9774234 times better than the all-in-one turntable/speakers I had before.

I am eventually going to step up to a nicer amp and speaker combo.
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Evil_Johnny_666



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Québec

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a question, does it damage my vinyls if my belt (not an automatic one) doesn't go round totally horizontally? it gets up and down a little. I think my turntable does some noise when my needle isn't on my vinyl. Is it just wear that doesn't affect the vinyl on the contrary to the stylus or needle?
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TurnTheHellOn



Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 83
Location: Upstate NY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about turntables Reply with quote

blodhemn9 wrote:
My question is this: How much of the sound quality is the record player itself, and how much is the stereo/speakers??

Hmmm. Turntable isn't so big a deal as speakers and speaker placement. peterott has right idea, though percentage balance differs per individual. (trial and error, black magic of sorts)
I'd say: 4-5/10 speakers and placement, 3/10 cartridge, 1-2/10 amp, 1/10 turntable. (Big difference between good tube amp and almost any solid state though.)
Lots of forums on this kind of stuff-
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/bbs.html is one.
Evil_Johnny_666 wrote:
I got a question, does it damage my vinyls if my belt (not an automatic one) doesn't go round totally horizontally? it gets up and down a little.

I don't think so. Vinyl played at the wrong speed can get damaged but that doesn't sound bad. You may hear speed flutter though (would drive me nuts).
Evil_Johnny_666 wrote:
I think my turntable does some noise when my needle isn't on my vinyl.
That sounds more like something needs servicing. Wire connections on cartridge may be loose, volume knob control on amp may need cleaning, etc.
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Evil_Johnny_666



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the answers
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HotBlack



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 2229
Location: osaka][:::;;;>

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about turntables Reply with quote

blodhemn9 wrote:
Similar to how a shitty cd player sounds just fine if hooked up to a nice stereo system.


A CD player reads digital information off of the CD. There can be no difference in the "sound" from a crap/cheap/low quality CD player and from an expensive/top of the line CD player, the data is the same. The only difference would be in a scenario where the CD is scratched or damaged. A better quality CD player would probably be able to read the bits of data in the damaged areas with a higher probability of accuracy, as a better quality player would most likely have more error correcting features.
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Evil_Johnny_666



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Québec

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuck, mine just stopped working... it worked perfectly in the past...
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Lutfor



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 2046

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a hefty chunk of change you're willing to spend, I'd spring for an antique pair of SAE 4-foots. The volume those things are capable of is staggering.
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probert



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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Location: stankonia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

get a shure m44-7 needle/cartridge. killer low end and no skips.
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HotBlack



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 2229
Location: osaka][:::;;;>

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

probert wrote:
get a shure m44-7 needle/cartridge. killer low end and no skips.


Yes, Shure M44s are great... I use a M44G
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Bestial Aggressor



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 619

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using this set up at the moment: Project Debut SE turntable and X-LP musical fidelity pre-amp. Great sound but could do with more low-end speakers/ higher wattage amp.
http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l190/garyglitter/Turntable/?action=view&current=DSC02819.jpg


Last edited by Bestial Aggressor on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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