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Hallucinogen
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1262
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 Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| F.N. wrote: | | bvr wrote: | | Illumination wrote: | | I would probably suggest that the obvious misconceptions about what the occult actually is (through both trolling and serious comments) is quite a good reflection of the integrity of a lot of the current black metal scene. |
Black metal scene has never had anything to do with what the occult really is in the first place. |
But wouldn´t it be better if the scene would have more to do with a serious and real background? No more misguiding and stupid lyrics, no more the competition who looks more evil or who got the most unknown patch on his jacket. No more idiots that think that they could simultaneously "worship" Satan and Odin and Thor and all the shit. But instead of all this contradictory stupid idiots their could exist a circle of people that are pure in value and belief. A new step in the developement of the diabolic spirit and perhaps the sooner creation of a new man. But the things are as they are and you are right in most cases.....now you have to separate the mundane shit from the real thing within bm. Of course only if you´re not of the mundane shit. |
But why is being an okkvlt wizard master the right way? Also, my question regarding the results of studying the occult wasn't answered  |
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DeKay
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 559
Location: Down There...
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| F.N. wrote: | | bvr wrote: | | Illumination wrote: | | I would probably suggest that the obvious misconceptions about what the occult actually is (through both trolling and serious comments) is quite a good reflection of the integrity of a lot of the current black metal scene. |
Black metal scene has never had anything to do with what the occult really is in the first place. |
But wouldn´t it be better if the scene would have more to do with a serious and real background? No more misguiding and stupid lyrics, no more the competition who looks more evil or who got the most unknown patch on his jacket. No more idiots that think that they could simultaneously "worship" Satan and Odin and Thor and all the shit. But instead of all this contradictory stupid idiots their could exist a circle of people that are pure in value and belief. A new step in the developement of the diabolic spirit and perhaps the sooner creation of a new man. But the things are as they are and you are right in most cases.....now you have to separate the mundane shit from the real thing within bm. Of course only if you´re not of the mundane shit. |
Ah, "mundane", the favourite word of the elite occultist. You must have so much wisdom.
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Madhukapala
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 233
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| F.N. wrote: | | But wouldn´t it be better if the scene would have more to do with a serious and real background? |
Sure, but every 'scene' is going to be 75% (or more) composed of people for whom fashion, record collecting, hanging out on internet forums, etc, are the limits of their participation. It's just going to annoy them if you suggest that there's something they're missing. You should probably just get used to this, and seek out the quiet minority who are on the same page as yourself. |
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Madhukapala
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 233
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Hallucinogen wrote: | | the results of studying the occult wasn't answered |
If you're 'studying the occult' and you're not a retarded nerd, the ideal results are:
- greater self-knowledge and self-mastery
- aesthetic/psychological/spiritual pleasure
- sense of respect for the weirdness of life |
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TacoBell
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| Madhukapala wrote: | | Hallucinogen wrote: | | the results of studying the occult wasn't answered |
If you're 'studying the occult' and you're not a retarded nerd, the ideal results are:
- greater self-knowledge and self-mastery
- aesthetic/psychological/spiritual pleasure
- sense of respect for the weirdness of life |
so what would be good places to start with? (books/texts)? |
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Hallucinogen
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1262
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| So it's basically introspective hobby reading? |
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GiantCogs
Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 599
Location: Buenos Aires
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, that, and the summoning of demons. |
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astralvesl
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 1259
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| F.N. wrote: |
But wouldn´t it be better if the scene would have more to do with a serious and real background? |
No. |
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Thoth
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 733
Location: Montréal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| bvr wrote: | | One does not have to be a wise-ass scholar to successfully channel certain things. |
This statement is more true than you'd like. However, one still has to be somewhat open to these forces to let them speak through you. Mayhem had quite a unique thing going on around the band back then and that is undeniable. Whether they truly worshiped any deity or not, they definitely had some unholy, morbid and extremely strong aura surrounding them and the facts speak for themselves.
Another good example would be Ofermod. Though I like all of their works, it is undeniable that their best effort is "Mysterion Tes Anomias". Though the lyrics are definitely esoteric, they are far less advanced than that of their following releases. It seems the more one dives into esoterism and pre-determined ritualistic formulas, the less energy and raw fire they are able to express. As if their understanding of these forces (and to some extend their greater control) made them less spontaneous and impulsive, thus somehow reducing their effect on their creativity.
Food for thought...
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Madhukapala
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
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Xeniteia
Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 2414
Location: Rhône Valley, France
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| bvr wrote: | | On the other hand, DMDS still wipes the floor with any record that some well-known sophisticated qliphotic chaognostics have produced, no matter how much of serious occultists they aspire to be. One does not have to be a wise-ass scholar to successfully channel certain things. |
This is a smart insight IMO. I have to add that one particulary irritating thing is that nowadays these "qliphotic chaognostics" pretend to be the sole heirs of Black-Metal's legitimacy. Not to add that most of them, like most others religious morons do, pretend to own the sole way to salvation or even self-improvement.
Quorthon reminded something in the interview that's on this Dean Adams website. Extreme Metal was music for working youth of the West (and Eastern Europe too IMO). If any serious ideological/philosophical/religious movement arises out of it, there's no problem but religious moroness is still against Black-Metal, not part of it in my view.
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Orpheus
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 737
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Hallucinogen wrote: | | So it's basically introspective hobby reading? |
Read the first volume of "Cosmic Trigger" by Robert Anton Wilson. Its a quasi-autobiographical account of a period of his life when he was heavy into performing rituals and various thelemic, buddhist and sufi excercises. He was heavily influenced by Timothy Leary and Wilhelm Reich, as well as Korzibisky's Semantics so his model of what is actually going on may make more sense to you.
To add to Madhukapala's post: PILGRIM-TALK
O thou that settest out upon The Path, false is the
Phantom that thou seekest. When thou hast it
thou shalt know all bitterness, thy teeth fixed in
the Sodom-Apple.
Thus hast thou been lured along That Path, whose
terror else had driven thee far away.
O thou that stridest upon the middle of The Path, no
phantoms mock thee. For the stride's sake thou
stridest.
Thus art thou lured along That Path, whose fascina-
tion else had driven thee far away.
O thou that drawest toward the End of The Path,
effort is no more. Faster and faster dos thou fall;
thy weariness is changed into Ineffable Rest.
For there is not Thou upon That Path: thou hast
become The Way. |
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bvr
Joined: 18 Sep 2012
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Thoth wrote: | | This statement is more true than you'd like. |
Hallucinogen, you see that? Magick is real. Thoth can read minds through the internet. Almost as cool as shooting fire from the eyes. |
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Orpheus
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 737
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Xeniteia wrote: | | bvr wrote: | | On the other hand, DMDS still wipes the floor with any record that some well-known sophisticated qliphotic chaognostics have produced, no matter how much of serious occultists they aspire to be. One does not have to be a wise-ass scholar to successfully channel certain things. |
This is a smart insight IMO. I have to add that one particulary irritating thing is that nowadays these "qliphotic chaognostics" pretend to be the sole heirs of Black-Metal's legitimacy. Not to add that most of them, like most others religious morons do, pretend to own the sole way to salvation or even self-improvement.
Quorthon reminded something in the interview that's on this Dean Adams website. Extreme Metal was music for working youth of the West (and Eastern Europe too IMO). If any serious ideological/philosophical/religious movement arises out of it, there's no problem but religious moroness is still against Black-Metal, not part of it in my view. |
Anybody who feels the need to legitimize themselves and their work and babble on about how much more important or relevant they are then x or y is a blowhard. This applies to anything. |
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john matrix
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
Posts: 371
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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I recommend "Journey to Ixtlan" by Carlos Castaneda.
While not "occult" in the same vein as most of the stuff that is referred to in metal, this book (fictional or not) is an interesting story about the hidden world beneath being revealed to a normal man for the first time. |
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