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Collections VS insurance
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Demoniarch



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 5900

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one mans home burns should they not all burn? ...spread the flames, is there any insurance for planet earth? ...we are consuming it's soul daily.

Let the lost be lost... the damned be damned.
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siax2.0



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it would actually be a cool feature for Discogs, to show the value of your collection based on sale statistics of their site (you can already watch sale's history for a certain item, so it's only a small step to sum that up over a whole collection)

EDIT: oh wait, they already have it: http://www.discogs.com/mycollection?layout=stats

Code:

Collection Value Range
Minimum: €4,079.18 Median: €5,528.25 Maximum: €7,196.56

Values based on last 10 sales using Marketplace Sales History.


hehe now show yours Wink
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Weltering in Blood



Joined: 24 May 2011
Posts: 2152
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

siax2.0 wrote:
it would actually be a cool feature for Discogs, to show the value of your collection based on sale statistics of their site (you can already watch sale's history for a certain item, so it's only a small step to sum that up over a whole collection)

EDIT: oh wait, they already have it: http://www.discogs.com/mycollection?layout=stats

Code:

Collection Value Range
Minimum: €4,079.18 Median: €5,528.25 Maximum: €7,196.56

Values based on last 10 sales using Marketplace Sales History.


hehe now show yours Wink


pretty cool little tool that! Though I don't think I could be bothered trawling through the site adding every single record I own Wink
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Reaper's Grave



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Manchester, New Hampshire, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minimum: $10,546.69 Median: $13,837.47 Maximum: $19,607.47

Mine doesn't account for my tapes or CD's which 90% of have not been added to mine yet due to laziness, or the things that aren't on the database, or i somehow managed to forget to add.

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Heirophant.326.AV



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 1362
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting stuff. I'm interested to have a look over my policy now. If my house burned down I'm honestly going to be a lot more concerned about having them pay out the value of the house rather than the contents. Aside from the records not a lot of my posessions are worth a massive amount of cash. The policy I have is pretty decent I think - my instruments are covered under the home policy if they are damaged or stolen at gigs, which is a nice touch.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

siax2.0 wrote:
it would actually be a cool feature for Discogs, to show the value of your collection based on sale statistics of their site (you can already watch sale's history for a certain item, so it's only a small step to sum that up over a whole collection)

EDIT: oh wait, they already have it: http://www.discogs.com/mycollection?layout=stats

Code:

Collection Value Range
Minimum: €4,079.18 Median: €5,528.25 Maximum: €7,196.56

Values based on last 10 sales using Marketplace Sales History.


hehe now show yours Wink

Tried adding a hundred items, the results were everything but reliable. According to the site, Mayhem's Posercorpse is worth a mere €182 median, several records weren't even counted (never sold on discogs apparently), some others not listed yet. Good luck using this database for your policy.
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Reaper's Grave



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Manchester, New Hampshire, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ that leads to the question of how some people assess the value of some records with so much price fluctuations on the market. I guess we could argue all day how any values are assigned on any market of antiques or collectible items in those books or by any "experts" in the field. With metal records specifically though what we have for "market research" has so much variance i don't think its entirely possible to come up with an objective number or average to value a record at. There's also so many factors that play into what an album sells for in a particular auction from the seller's reputation, location (especially with postage rates lately), if the album has turned up frequently (say 3-4 auctions in a month) or rarely (first auction for the item in months), overall demand, and how many people see the item for sale...all this in mind and the same album can go for very different numbers without a definite average that doesn't seem to high or too low.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Items sold on discogs tend to go for lower amounts of money than they do when they're listed on Ebay, in the case of Deathcrush the most expensive copy sold there apparently went for less than €800 whereas I saw it reach €900-1000 on a couple of auctions. But besides that, their database just isn't accurate, those recent Satyricon, Dodheimsgard bootlegs for example made it in the lists as originals thus completely altering the value of the legit 1st editions. I think it wouldn't entirely be impossible to come up with a catalogue of the genre's most wanted jewels and their realistic average value (which at leasts for the top rarities is quite stable) but that could be confined to 200, may be 300 records at best, and we know our collections are way bigger than that.
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siax2.0



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:

Tried adding a hundred items, the results were everything but reliable. According to the site, Mayhem's Posercorpse is worth a mere €182 median, several records weren't even counted (never sold on discogs apparently), some others not listed yet. Good luck using this database for your policy.


Well consider how much time it would take you to collect more reliable data. For the data it has it is a quite nice feature. It's just from sales history and OF COURSE it can NOT consider if people wrongly list their replicas as original.

As for my items also 50% has absolutely no sales history, but I'm not going to insure my collection anyway in the next time. Maybe when a year passed by there will be sales history for 80% of my belongings, which would be quite great info actually.
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DSS



Joined: 02 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most insurance companies that I talked to are only willing to insure records for $1 a piece unless I get everything appraised.

One good thing about PayPal is that you can easily view your purchase history going back many years. Now that's proof what you actually paid for the merchandise, not what it might be worth today. Better than nothing I guess.
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boogs



Joined: 18 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a house insurance for my all my personal belongings if my apartment burns down or get damaged, it was no problem to insure a value of 75K Euro. They also did not want a detailed list of things but obviously it's good to have something like your record collection on file. I also use discogs for this. The insurance costs me about 100 Euro per year. it would also not be a problem to insure a higher value if need be.
Considering the sales history on discogs: it's for every item in their database, hence there's separate sales histories for dfferent pressings, LP/CD etc. Of course you will always have people selling a die hard version under something else because they can't be assed to list the die hard themselves which in effect will corrupt the data of course. However you will also see a detailed history for every item which is greatly helpful because sometimes a copy will go for less than average because it's in bad condition etc. so you can actually determine the real value that way. At the end of the day the value of a record varies on its current popularity, especially in Metal as we all can see right now. So getting something "officially" appraised today will be useless in a few years anyway.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boogs wrote:
They also did not want a detailed list of things

Of course not, they're cashing in now, guess if they give jackshit about which Mutiilation albums you store in your Expedit. Wait until your house is really on fire and they'll require you to prove that that Moonblood lp was really worth a thousand bucks, and trust me on that at that point all your excel files/discogs links will be useless.
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Cursed Emperor



Joined: 30 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insurance is nice and all, but it's just another way to take your money. I never understood why people want insurance for this and insurance for that. Are you guys going to take your collection with you in your grave also, to prevent damage or loss after you died? And while you're at it, get one of these: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248071/20-000-coffin-plays-music-loop-loved-ones-listen-tunes-afterlife.html#axzz2Jr3Fz4js
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Reaper's Grave



Joined: 28 Jan 2009
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Location: Manchester, New Hampshire, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DSS wrote:
Most insurance companies that I talked to are only willing to insure records for $1 a piece unless I get everything appraised.

One good thing about PayPal is that you can easily view your purchase history going back many years. Now that's proof what you actually paid for the merchandise, not what it might be worth today. Better than nothing I guess.


Does paypal have enough accurate info on your purchases though? may help if you use ebay. I guess your discogs order history can be accessed to reflect things as well, but im not sure what insurance companies will see as legitimate, and there's always the typical concept that the things we buy do not stay worth what we buy.

$1 each seems kind of low, given that a retail value of $15-20 can probably be assessed to vinyl records just based on what they sell for in stores. Even used records can be an indicator, a local chain shop in my area sells used records at a pretty flat rate it seems (between $8-12 each) so even trying to come to an agreement with a flat rate higher than a dollar should work for an average collection (not counting the people with the huge collections with many big money records, and the stamp collectors with diehards/rare colors that go for more, if your house burns down i think your least concern is having a $90 variant of an album you can still get for $15 not insured for $90). This probably would also require only documentation of the quantity. Even on discogs, the median of mine peaked at $75 for the highest items, and only about 20 were in the $50 or higher range, so as long as i could get a flat price for every vinyl record, i can probably get back what i lost, or at least the important stuff (one of my highest valued items for example was a motley crue record, i'll just find a cheap pressing at a yard sale for a dollar or two to replace that)

ill have to ask someone i know whose collection got destroyed in a fire. The damages to the records makes them still visible as to what they are because they weren't near where the fire started and mostly suffered water and smoke damage, she had pictures of them all, and i helped her with a spreadsheet of values on them, however i think she was given a flat rate on the items in general, or just given a lump sum of cash for the total of all lost belongings, and not the full value of the records here. In her case the collection was the least of her concern when she was replacing things like furniture, clothing, laptop, etc as well so i think she just used the money for other replacements, and will try to salvage which records didn't get destroyed/are still playable if any once she gets a new player, pick up copies of the albums she wants to replace the most when she can afford to, etc.
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Conservationist
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Humus wrote:
Bottom line is, insurance companies will take your money with a smile. But when it's time to pay out they'll do everything to avoid that. And when you're insuring some mid 80's obscure South-American private press vinyl record, it's not that hard for them to argue that the price is not €xxx like you say it is.


I'd watch those eBay auctions and document them. If one of us gets really motivated, a database of "final prices" on eBay would provide a decent way to rate the value of your collection and demonstrate that to insurers.
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