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Has collecting music lost its lustre for you?
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NK7
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weltering in Blood wrote:
The problem with collecting thesedays is everyone thinks their VENOM records are worth 100 when they're really just worth about 5. If you look on discogs there's sellers there just completely off the mark. It makes the whole thing a little frustrating. I messaged a russian about getting 9 LPs from him, nothing rare or obscure, but his prices were retarded. I made a 200 offer plus postage and he acted like I'd just kicked him in the balls. Just because something is OLD doesn't mean it's worth anything. Some people forget that these records were pressed in their tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands in some cases. But still, people think 60 for Reign in Blood is perfectly normal. I love seeing one copy of a record on discogs for 20 and another copy of the same record for 300. Fucks sake.

Musicstack.com is even more retarded when it comes to that problem, people there will easily charge 100 even for the last Gamma Ray. When I take a look at the market these days I'm glad my collection is more or less complete, I think I'd go insane if I had to find my way out of a jungle made of fraudulent sellers, Greek bootlegs, overpriced records and whatnot.
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holy ghost



Joined: 16 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stores aren't exempt from this hijacking either - I have no trouble making a reasonable offer on used LPs, especially if I'm buying more than one record and store owners seem to be aghast at such things these days, or in some cases, not allowed to make deals if the owner isn't there. Rolling Eyes

"Do you know what this goes for on ebay BRO?" they'll say, like I'm a complete fucking idiot, even though I usually have a pretty good idea - and those records tend to sit there, wasting away in some crummy store with minimal foot traffic until the shop goes out of business, meanwhile I've obtained the record for less on discogs with a two week wait..... I'm all for supporting local business but I'm not a SAP.....
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Weltering in Blood



Joined: 24 May 2011
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:

Musicstack.com is even more retarded when it comes to that problem, people there will easily charge 100 even for the last Gamma Ray. When I take a look at the market these days I'm glad my collection is more or less complete, I think I'd go insane if I had to find my way out of a jungle made of fraudulent sellers, Greek bootlegs, overpriced records and whatnot.


Laughing

It is fustrating alright. I've no real expensive wants left /(discount yellow goat, but it's not something I'll over turn every rock to find) or at least i thought I didn't. Signed up to Discogs recently to pick up some older records and am having trouble getting even something like Requiem for a proper price.
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Weltering in Blood



Joined: 24 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holy ghost wrote:

"Do you know what this goes for on ebay BRO?" they'll say, like I'm a complete fucking idiot, even though I usually have a pretty good idea - and those records tend to sit there, wasting away in some crummy store with minimal foot traffic until the shop goes out of business,


I get great satisfaction of seeing these sellers having this stuff rotting away for months or years on end. Kinda admire their stubborness in a perverted way, but fuck..if you're selling, sell.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holy ghost wrote:

"Do you know what this goes for on ebay BRO?"

I wonder if people like that realize that prices on ebay go insane because that site daily reaches one billion people in the whole world whereas their shitty shop attracts a few hundred potential customers in a month in the best scenario. This is one of the reasons why several 2nd hand shops went bankrupt, most owners lack any knowledge of basic commerce rules.
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holy ghost



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, and I think a lot of these guys are using discogs as a reference, forgetting that just because some useless suckbag priced his copy of xxxxxx classic Banzai LP at $70 doesn't mean it actually sold - look at the aggregator when you're selling a record, it will actually warn you if a copy is priced too high.

But what do I know, I made $300 selling some shitty records last week because they were priced fairly, I don't have a $10,000 collection I can't sell becuse everything is $100+
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DrkKnight



Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

outlaw-recordings wrote:
DrkKnight wrote:

On a related note, I searched from 1987 to 1997 for Venom's Japanese Assault on vinyl and had EVERY record store and mail order trying to find it for me since the late 80's to no avail. When the 'net first starting picking up steam I found it through a friend I met online who knew a guy who owned a Cleveland record store and had it on the wall for a pretty hefty price. Without asking, I sent the money and got the long-awaited addition. I was like a kid in a candy store when it arrived, and now, 15-years later, I think how ridiculously easy it was to find it with simple key strokes and sort of see now that it was...too easy. Very Happy I'm glad to own it, but the thrill of going to the stores and digging until your fingers hurt always held prominence for me.


A cool story about a great record! I bought my copy of this Venom gem in a store in the UK in the 80's, when I was probably like 14 or 15, and it was 15.99 British pounds (don't know how to make that sterling sign on here) which was a lot of money back then. I never even saw another copy for sale until the 90's when I started getting "metal lists" from dealers, but then you're right- once the internet came along it was readily available! But I still cherish that one I found in that UK record store, I think it was called Lizards, and I still have it to this day. Unfortunately, that release got booted too I think, though the boots are pretty easy to spot since they're on colored vinyl.

Speaking of the UK, not sure if anyone remembers Shades of London, but they were an ALL metal shop that used to advertise in Kerrang magazine in the 80's. I also had the chance to visit that shop while in London around that same time, and it was like a religious experience. Seeing ALL that metal vinyl and shit I had 'heard of' but never seen in person was overwhelming. This is a page/interview with the owner:

http://www.thrashhits.com/2008/07/in-memoriam-of-shades/

And here's another guy's post about it, and I think I might even still have one of those Shades shopping bags stashed away somewhere!

http://everyrecordtellsastory.com/2012/04/09/shades_records/

Again, I'm reminising about 'old days' collecting, but as I said, I still have fun with it and continue hunting. Finding and scoring that private press RATT single from 1980 a few weeks ago online for $50 was as exciting for me as finding that VENOM "Japanese Assault" 20+ years ago, so the road of collecting goes on....



What a cool couple of articles. WE had three stores in my area through my youth that I miss badly: Record Swap In Homewood, Illinois, Kroozin' Music in Chicago and Hegewisch Records in Calumet City, IL. I built my first arsenal from these three and the changing times killed them as well. I bought all of the Norwegian black metal in '92 and '93 from Record Swap and even got in contact with Aarseth through John who owned it and passed along the mailing info. I still manage to have a couple of used places that add to my habit, but nothing will beat the days of traveling up to two hours just to go record hunting. Other than blues records, I can't think of another music genre that has such dedicated and loyal detectives like our does.
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N.



Joined: 05 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting new records in the mail hasn't gotten old for me, there are still tons of great albums that I would like to have. I do mostly buy vinyl because it's the format I prefer, never for the sake of collecting or boasting on message boards, for me it all comes back to the musick. And it seems a little pathetic to me that some people out there would buy rare records just to tell people they have them....one should do things for theirself first. I started out buying cassette tapes, I remember my grandmother buying me the first two Metallica tapes, and then blasting it on the big stereo system, that's a good memory I have. I've done a little tape trading in the past, but now that pretty much everything is available on the internet for download, I don't really feel like trading crummy dub tapes. Also I will listen to any record I have, no matter how rare it is, music is meant to be listened to, not sealed and stashed away. Recently I bought King Diamond - Fatal Portrait used on vinyl, and it sounds great, it seems the older records sound better than alot of the vinyl coming out these days. And as Yosuke said, CDs are good for the car hehe.
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outlaw-recordings



Joined: 20 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NK7 wrote:
The advent of the Internet certainly brought in many good things, one annoying aspect though is the obsessive "MUST BE MINT/MINT!!1!1" paranoid syndrome which affects most people into buying/trading stuff. Before 1996-97 orders and trades were done via snail mail/telephone exclusively and nobody gave two shits if his copy of Apocalyptic Raids had a minor tear on the cover or the occasional seam split as long as the lp played fine. Nowadays people will go nuts and open paypal disputes if they feel like the EX+++ you sold them is an EX++. Cunts who are such obnoxious pricks about the grading of records will of course never listen to the goddamn thing and only buy stuff to show off. Fuck that shit.


Absolutely- this is so true. Back in 'the day' you'd just be glad if a fucking record arrived, the condition was, as you said, fine as long as it wasn't broken! I mean, yes- we cared about the conditions of records, but this "fear of a corner dings" mentality was non existent. It was about the music, and having the record- not it being MINTER than the day it was pressed! I partly blame Paypal for creating that madness. When you had to buy a money order there wasn't a lot of recourse, unless you had your package sent insured in which case you could complain and file a claim with the postal service. Now days if you don't pack the record you're sending in a fucking armored car and/or hand deliver it you risk some clown pulling a stunt like you're describing and asking for (and probably getting) a refund from Paypal. Again, a whole different discussion, so I'll leave it at that.
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outlaw-recordings



Joined: 20 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DESECRATOR777 wrote:
the only "new" release i am interested in [and its old music anyway] is Northern Lights which of course is legendary.


Anno Satanas!!!!
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slayerhatesusall



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoy collecting cds more then ever since the prices are so cheap, ordered a bunch of cds off amazon recently from the zoverstocks seller, average price around $3.50 each including shipping from the UK to US, most of them were a penny each plus $3 shipping. You think the shipping from the UK to the US would cost more then $3 by itself. Also I find many great cd lots on ebay of great titles for around $1-$2 each including shipping, now is a better time then ever to collect cds.
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DrkKnight



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

outlaw-recordings wrote:
NK7 wrote:
The advent of the Internet certainly brought in many good things, one annoying aspect though is the obsessive "MUST BE MINT/MINT!!1!1" paranoid syndrome which affects most people into buying/trading stuff. Before 1996-97 orders and trades were done via snail mail/telephone exclusively and nobody gave two shits if his copy of Apocalyptic Raids had a minor tear on the cover or the occasional seam split as long as the lp played fine. Nowadays people will go nuts and open paypal disputes if they feel like the EX+++ you sold them is an EX++. Cunts who are such obnoxious pricks about the grading of records will of course never listen to the goddamn thing and only buy stuff to show off. Fuck that shit.


Absolutely- this is so true. Back in 'the day' you'd just be glad if a fucking record arrived, the condition was, as you said, fine as long as it wasn't broken! I mean, yes- we cared about the conditions of records, but this "fear of a corner dings" mentality was non existent. It was about the music, and having the record- not it being MINTER than the day it was pressed! I partly blame Paypal for creating that madness. When you had to buy a money order there wasn't a lot of recourse, unless you had your package sent insured in which case you could complain and file a claim with the postal service. Now days if you don't pack the record you're sending in a fucking armored car and/or hand deliver it you risk some clown pulling a stunt like you're describing and asking for (and probably getting) a refund from Paypal. Again, a whole different discussion, so I'll leave it at that.


The spoiled children syndrome hit the Internet. you're right about the old days, being happy we got the damn thing after search-and-seizure hunting. I'm old school to where if it isn't broken I'm happy, but that seems to have lost its luster. What I think is funny is that the more people want these records in MINT/MINT shape it seems as if they're prepping to sell them down the line. It's not that way for everyone I'm sure, but some people have that mentality and I find that counter-productive to the hobby.
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Evil Fifi



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demoniarch wrote:
I'm not sure what everyone else's memory is like anymore... but I remember when I was fifteen with no real responsability, and collecting all the various Conan formats available at that time, Conan Saga, The Savage Sword, Conan the King, Conan the Barbarian, and the novels... I could recall from all those hundreads of copies I had between those formats every cover, and knew when I found an issue of something if I already had it or not... zero error...

Fast forward to 37 and a plethora of bullshit adult responsability and I sometimes have bought the same CD twice, I have no clue what the hell is stacked in that collection anymore all the time... can't even recall what is in there on every album anymore at this point either.

Now is that a collection to take pride in ? I don't really think so anymore, it's just a horde of stuff I managed to afford... and in todays market it is easy to aquire a lot of stuff... sure lots of it sounded good at first listen via the little promo samples, but in the end so much of it is all sounding the same at this point.

The love of collecting lost ? Certainly a little. I've been doing it too long and have aquired too much.
Was this a good or bad influence of the internet ? Wink


Sad but true - could be me. Except for me, it mostly lost its bite, even when i get something of my want list. It's a bit like if fun turns into business. Yeah, maybe it's about time for a change of habit.
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scentofdeath



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a difference between collecting music and buying music for the pure enjoyment that comes with it.

As far as I'm concerned, collecting is a strict activity, purchasing only certain titles of a limited nature, hard to find, special editions, or multiples of that. Also, starting and completing discographies for the sake of having such a complete collection, for various reasons.

And of course that fades away in time, like many other interests that go away with age. That's right, AGE. Stop blaming it on the technology. Just because many titles are available more frequently in various circumstances doesn't mean there's no alternatives for such hunting "requirements". There are still artists and labels that still make it exciting to "collect" and some even make it harder to find than others.

On the other hand, if you don't limit yourself to "collecting", but allow yourself to enjoy what you hunt down / purchase, you'll see it's still a lot of fun, just ignoring what edition you have, or what color it is, or whatever.
If you buy the music, and not the "special edition", that never goes away.

About the Mint / Mint requirements of todays buyers, I can only say it is a paranoia created by cretins that charge/ask insane prices for their "rare" copies of sold out releases. If you're gonna decide to pay $100 for an LP, wouldn't you want it to be in NM condition? In fact, it should come with a spit shine and a kiss in the ass for that money. Just sayin'.
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NK7
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scentofdeath wrote:
If you're gonna decide to pay $100 for an LP, wouldn't you want it to be in NM condition? In fact, it should come with a spit shine and a kiss in the ass for that money. Just sayin'.

Not necessarily. The only time I spent $100+ on a record in pre-Internet days was when I bought my Deathcrush from a Swedish seller in '96. Came with a bent corner and I didn't give a flying fuck about that really, had been after that lp for several years and the joy of finally having it in my hands after hundreds of letters/flyers spread all around the world largely exceeded any other point. Back then you looked upon it as a part of the game in a way, ordering stuff from the other corner of the world meant you had to expect something could go slightly wrong and just deal with it.

Besides, I've always tried to be realistic about this sort of things, you can't expect a 10+ year old naturally fragile object to be in perfectly pristine conditions and I don't want it to be that way, either. For some reason when I buy 2nd hand records I like to see the previous owner actually enjoyed them. My copy of Bonded by Blood plays fine but has all sorts of odd writings and old mag pics tied with sticky tape to the inner sleeve and it looks fucking cool imo. I'm sure the average German ubermint fucktards would have a heart attack if they saw it and I'll never get more than $5 on ebay if I ever decide to sell it -which I won't- but to me that's the essence of music. I want to enjoy my records and if they'll be an inch consumed on my day of decay, so be it.
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