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Why cassette!?... why not $5 CDs like it should be?
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SlevinKelevra



Joined: 03 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HotBlack wrote:
little_raven wrote:
funeral-records wrote:
Ough wrote:
HotBlack please start your $5 CD label


Not a very promising venture if you've read the general irrationality expressed towards CDs so far. Maybe after the fickle hipster fad has moved on, the CD pressing plants are pushed to a point they will be willing to press whatever they can at whatever qty at a competitive price... and the artists begin choosing a format based on superiority and ubiquity in hopes of reaching a broader audience through ease of access rather than continuing to look for the next niche trend in hopes of capitalizing in the short term...?



Cd pressing plants are already at rock bottom prices
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SlevinKelevra



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acid Orgy wrote:
One thing that is going to kill vinyl in my opinion are shipping costs, in the last few years they become insane and vinyl is the heaviest/biggest physical format.
Just few minutes ago a seller from Finland asked me 17 € for an Lp shipped unregistered (to Italy) and I had to renounce. That's fucked.


Last few years? 15 years ago 10 LPS from Finland to USA pushed 55$
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FallenEmpire



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acid Orgy wrote:
One thing that is going to kill vinyl in my opinion are shipping costs, in the last few years they become insane and vinyl is the heaviest/biggest physical format.
Just few minutes ago a seller from Finland asked me 17 € for an Lp shipped unregistered (to Italy) and I had to renounce. That's fucked.


Most people aren't buying vinyl internationally though. Speaking strictly within the USA, it would take a massive price increase / elimination of Media Mail to have any real impact with regards to online vinyl sales.
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HotBlack



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlevinKelevra wrote:
HotBlack wrote:
little_raven wrote:
funeral-records wrote:
Ough wrote:
HotBlack please start your $5 CD label


Not a very promising venture if you've read the general irrationality expressed towards CDs so far. Maybe after the fickle hipster fad has moved on, the CD pressing plants are pushed to a point they will be willing to press whatever they can at whatever qty at a competitive price... and the artists begin choosing a format based on superiority and ubiquity in hopes of reaching a broader audience through ease of access rather than continuing to look for the next niche trend in hopes of capitalizing in the short term...?



Cd pressing plants are already at rock bottom prices



Then why don't they press in quantity under 500. And if they do, why do they charge price per unit equivalent to 500unit pricing? Gives the impression they would rather turn business away than be bothered to do smaller runs... rhetorical questions...
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HotBlack



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NWN PROD wrote:

5. Labels will follow where there's demand. Right now there is a demand for tapes over CDs.

6. Some artists like the tape format because it forces the listener to play it all the way through. Yeah it's possible to fast forward but it's not that easy to skip from song to song as you can do with CDs or even vinyl. This last point is pretty significant I think.


Is it wrong to say labels can just as easily influence the market also? If labels didn't entertain the idea of selling full length releases on tape I'd argue the demand would disappear also.

I can definitely see how having some measure of control over how the end user is able to experience your art would indeed be appealing, that is certainly a merit of the cassette, albeit a cheeky one...
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under a funeral shroom



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as a physical format of any kind is made I will buy it. I do not get the whole streaming thing, but I am old and hate new things.
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dronevil



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HotBlack wrote:
Then why don't they press in quantity under 500. And if they do, why do they charge price per unit equivalent to 500unit pricing? Gives the impression they would rather turn business away than be bothered to do smaller runs... rhetorical questions...


If you look at some stats, despite that CD sales are declining every year, it's still outselling vinyl by about 10 times when it comes to actual units. I bet the plants are still busy enough.
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frank_zito



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHY COMES THE CASSETTE???
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Too Dark Park



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FallenEmpire wrote:
Acid Orgy wrote:
One thing that is going to kill vinyl in my opinion are shipping costs, in the last few years they become insane and vinyl is the heaviest/biggest physical format.
Just few minutes ago a seller from Finland asked me 17 € for an Lp shipped unregistered (to Italy) and I had to renounce. That's fucked.


Most people aren't buying vinyl internationally though.
Speaking strictly within the USA, it would take a massive price increase / elimination of Media Mail to have any real impact with regards to online vinyl sales.


I guess I'm not most people, I buy as much vinyl as always most of it from Germany as their postal rates are best, but also HHR of course.
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Forces of Steel



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dronevil wrote:
If you look at some stats, despite that CD sales are declining every year, it's still outselling vinyl by about 10 times when it comes to actual units. I bet the plants are still busy enough.

CD sales are still booming in Japan, because major labels there have much more control over their artists than over here. Rental stores still carry CDs, hence why whenever you buy a CD from Japan and see one of those stickers, then it's because it's a rental copy. They are still every bit into the physical aspects of collecting, be it films, adult magazines, video games, and the like.

I can't think of any other country in the world that's generally attached to tangible media. South Korea and especially China are even worse than we are with downloads and digital releases. Lots of the old stuff is sourced from really, really bad master tapes. For example, Baekdoosan guitarist Steve Do Kyoon Kim's solo debut album has really poor sound on the 2002 reissue. Even the sticker on it warns of the bad sound quality. The music, on the other hand, is just simply great stuff.
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HotBlack



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forces of Steel wrote:
dronevil wrote:
If you look at some stats, despite that CD sales are declining every year, it's still outselling vinyl by about 10 times when it comes to actual units. I bet the plants are still busy enough.

CD sales are still booming in Japan, because major labels there have much more control over their artists than over here. Rental stores still carry CDs, hence why whenever you buy a CD from Japan and see one of those stickers, then it's because it's a rental copy. They are still every bit into the physical aspects of collecting, be it films, adult magazines, video games, and the like.

I can't think of any other country in the world that's generally attached to tangible media. South Korea and especially China are even worse than we are with downloads and digital releases. Lots of the old stuff is sourced from really, really bad master tapes. For example, Baekdoosan guitarist Steve Do Kyoon Kim's solo debut album has really poor sound on the 2002 reissue. Even the sticker on it warns of the bad sound quality. The music, on the other hand, is just simply great stuff.


I would hardly go so far as sales are booming... Tower records scaled back massively a few years back and Tsutaya had to reinvent itself just to stay afloat... there is definitely still a large market for physical media there though, of that there is no doubt. But there is also a massive population with a lot of disposable income there and the Japanese market is very insulated, more so than any other economy I can think of... over the last 10 years the used market has really started to dry up unfortunately....
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SlevinKelevra



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HotBlack wrote:



Then why don't they press in quantity under 500. And if they do, why do they charge price per unit equivalent to 500unit pricing? Gives the impression they would rather turn business away than be bothered to do smaller runs... rhetorical questions...



because making a glass master takes a lot of time and has a set cost whether you press 1 or 1000
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Compact-Disc.html

because changing up the production line (whether you press 1 or 1000) to make the replicated takes time and (for small runs) is inefficient

because having a sales rep deal with the picky-ass customer takes time and costs $



You can get a 4page folder with 4/1, jewel case, shrinkwrap and silkscreened discs for the price of just what the discs themselves cost 10 years ago on a short run; admittedly shipping is a lot more now though and makes the jewel case and shrink wrap unappealing at really low run size.
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MorbidAsshole



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlevinKelevra wrote:

because making a glass master takes a lot of time and has a set cost whether you press 1 or 1000
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Compact-Disc.html


Very cool link, thanks for posting.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too Dark Park wrote:
I guess I'm not most people, I buy as much vinyl as always most of it from Germany as their postal rates are best, but also HHR of course.


I will pretty much only buy from within Canada, Germany or HHR at this point.

HotBlack wrote:
Not a very promising venture if you've read the general irrationality expressed towards CDs so far.


Rolling Eyes clearly you've started this thread thinking your opinion is superior from the get go so why bother even having this smug little discussion? I like tapes because they're cheap to make, cheap to buy, cheap to sell, cheap to ship, cheap to trade, easy to play, and easier to build shelves for.... and frankly I have zero interest in buying a "cheap CD" with a cheap jewel case, I have too many pf those. If I'm going to buy a CD it better be something fucking cool like the Black Sabbath Paranoid Super Deluxe and have a book, poster, 4 CDs, and be priced at under $45....
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DTBRex



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the CD pressing plant I am working with, for jewelcase as well as digipak productions, there is virtually no difference in unit price whether I do 200 or 2k copies. It's getting increasingly impossible to store productions of 500+ copies unless I can be sure they gonna sell fast & sell out within 6 months or less. For instance, I still have copies (not that many, but still) of the first 2k units-pressing of "Wotan Redivivus"-CD, and that one was released four years ago! Evil or Very Mad

And as a rule of thumb, if the CD (or tape or vinyl) of a new / fairly unknown band does not sell out in a hurry, you'll end up with plenty deadstock that's just good for nothing. In our day and age, the attention span of everyone has narrowed to days, or weeks at the most, and what has been missed on first sight will most likely never be looked up again, either. Hence it is economic insanity to 1. keep investing money in a format that holds the least appeal to the music scene in general and the music collector nerds in particular, and to 2. release way more copies than what you could realistically hope to sell, ever.

Needless to say, repressings of anything (except of audio tapes) are usually less expensive than first pressings and thus the option to just make more copies, if there's sufficient demand, remains on the table regardless of any initial limitations.
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